Oculus Rift Support

[Statyk]

To pin point a few things out there, it doesn't need to be completely re-written, but does require a large amount of redesign, especially for a game/engine such as hpl. A small engine developed by a small group of guys. But when we look at the main engines to support OR, they include Source (Valve's TF2 currently supports it), Unreal, and iD currently has is working for Doom3 BFG Edition. There are others, but the OR is not a plug-and-play device. An engine requires to be developed around it, not the other way around. This would take a lot of time to do, which would mean delays for AAMFP, even if the OR WOULD work with HPL2.

And not only would it be an addition that wouldn't really have much of an impact on the game's quality, The team didn't seem so excited about it as one would hope. It's a nice device, but with HPL's interaction system, don't you think it'd be strange picking something up with your eyeballs technically? To me, I think OR might be a bit of a mess for a game like amnesia, until perhaps they develop it so the head is controlled by the Rift, and the mouse controls the crosshair freely on the screen (this is an available option in TF2). For now, I don't see this happening. I'd rather see engine-sepcific additions such as outdoor lighting, perhaps even a lightmass system and directional lighting (a large lightsource such as a sun or moon covering a landscape), perhaps even a first person body going on, Material type improvements/additions, things like that... I'm more interested in the visual aspect, not the compatibility aspect. (that's if FG would be so kind to keep modding capabilities through to their new HPL3 engine, but also so their future games can get even prettier =P )

[MungeParty]

Game programmer and Rift dev kit owner here. The Oculus SDK is pretty darn close to plug-and-play. The SDK gives you the head tracking input from the sensor fusion in the form of a transform matrix that you just apply to your camera's view matrix prior to rendering and they have documentation on the algorithm used to create the distortion effect needed to work with the lens distortion in the headset. It really is pretty straightforward - maybe 1-2 days to get it working properly with both tracking and rendering. The vast majority of the work in integrating Rift support for a game is typically related to HUD and controls, which is relatively simple in this case. This talk about the engine needing to be rewritten or even significantly reworked is greatly exaggerated. Posting because I would personally love to see this happen, although I would not blame them for holding off until the consumer version of the OR is closer to release - especially if adoption rates aren't looking great.

[Adrianis]

Game programmer and Rift dev kit owner here. The Oculus SDK is pretty darn close to plug-and-play. The SDK gives you the head tracking input from the sensor fusion in the form of a transform matrix that you just apply to your camera's view matrix prior to rendering and they have documentation on the algorithm used to create the distortion effect needed to work with the lens distortion in the headset. It really is pretty straightforward - maybe 1-2 days to get it working properly with both tracking and rendering. The vast majority of the work in integrating Rift support for a game is typically related to HUD and controls, which is relatively simple in this case. This talk about the engine needing to be rewritten or even significantly reworked is greatly exaggerated. Posting because I would personally love to see this happen, although I would not blame them for holding off until the consumer version of the OR is closer to release - especially if adoption rates aren't looking great.

Check this page out
https://github.com/FrictionalGames/Penum...teract.cpp
Specifically 'cPlayerState_Grab::OnUpdate'

That's the Penumbra gameplay code in HPL1, specifically the object interaction. Assuming that the interaction in HPL2 is anything like in HPL1, the basis for moving objects that you are holding is the Camera position. It may be trivial to get the SDK implemented and tracking/rendering working, but that's the smallest and easiest part.

The hardest part is going to be redesigning the object interaction. Assuming you've played this game quite a lot, you know how important the feel of grabbing & moving objects around is. Separating the camera for head movement and the body for moving objects may not be a huge task (not trivial either), but think about the kind of consequences you would need to deal with for things as simple as knowing which way you're body is facing, since you're going to need to move things accurately, and it needs to feel natural.

I haven't picked through all the relevant code in HPL1, but I'm guessing they didn't build in the potential for a separate 'head' and 'body', so now it's not just picking up boxes that's the issue, never mind drawers & doors & wheels, but actually the way your 'body' is represented in the game world will need to be re-thought (if you're grabbing from the eyes as before it wouldn't feel right, but if you're grabbing from the body would the start position for grabbing an object be further down, what would that mean in the code above? Would that still work if it's a wheel you're turning?). I actually can't think of an interaction system that would be any harder to get working right with the Rift than the kind Amnesia uses.

Obviously the whole thing doesn't need re-writing, Statyk already did a good job pointing that out, but a good solution will be a lot more than a few days work. The design issues are fun to tackle, but when these guys need to make a living out of their development time, spending a lot of time thinking through UI implications for a niche hardware product doesn't make sense. Leave it to the hobbyists till there's a decent standard to work from. I'm not sure how you feel but there's no project on the Rift development showcase I've tried that I would point to and say 'that's how to do it'

[LazyGunn]

I'm another slightly affronted developer/games player, and i did indeed sign up to post this, the idea of the kind of advertising behaviour originally accused being absolute anathema to the guys who make OR, it's my own opinion and i'd guess an informed one, since i own one.

There are several 'hacks' available for the Oculus to work with games without specific official support and they have shown me that first person shooters are pretty bad for this kind of retrofitting, you quickly quickly get very motion sick as in-game animation for your head, and your head typically swaying with mouse-look, makes for a very sickness-inducing experience.

Then the opposite of this is playing a sim where the actual direction your head is facing typically has no gameplay ramifications other than a broader sense of your surroundings, and because the game isnt taking away the moment of your head from you, no motion sickness, looks great, its a good fit.

And then between these extremes are games like Amnesia, Outlast, Gone Home, Penumbra and so on, and i've gone out of my way to try and find as many analogous experiences to Amnesia to see how it would feel to play with OR support. Outlast was/is a doozy, now my fave game of this year thanks to Oculus hacks, it wasnt designed for the Oculus and i had to tweak it a bunch but it's now a brilliantly paced, sometimes slow and terrifying, sometimes a freakout and run awaaaay, but it fitted very well with the Oculus behavior.

Next to no motion sickness, completely playable with an Oculus devkit, not a forgettable experience, which is why i like it so much.

And there's been raised concerns in this thread about how the player would interact with the world. I would assume based, again, on what I have learnt from Gone Home and other little experiments, but the moving stuff about makes absolutely no different whatsoever. You still have your icon that you can drag about to open things, you can interact as easily as you might before, a mouse pointer is still a mouse pointer

You could wonder why people havent been doing this stuff for Amnesia, as these 'hacks' are actually pretty good! And being developed still. It's because Amnesia uses opengl and these hacks tend to be for dx9 or below (currently). So it's a split in graphics api, im looking forwards, deeply, that maybe if Frictional don't feel the need to use this or spend any time on it, then someone could knock up an opengl supporting solution that would let you experience what this game could be like

I've already delayed progressing further in Gone Home, i'd decided as the developer was considering OR support, i should wait for it and enjoy it properly

I know many of you (or it looks like very few of you) have used an OR before, so im surprised at the amount of completely speculative opinions being made here, very few of which makes sense.

To answer a question immediately brought up above, the 'disconnect' between head and shoulders - in gameplay terms you find yourself orientating automatically a little bit a part of human nature - and if manipulating things needs to be in the range of the hand, you turn your head to face a more game-intentional view. When a game starts your oculus is zeroed, so you can somewhat tell where your body is based on how far round you're looking from things (If your body is also zeroed, it's the anchor for your head, locally).

I dont see the logic of not being able to manipulate things? Its pretty much exactly the same, you might notice something of interest in the distance more clearly but you still have to get there, and hence forth i dont see any strong argument between how Oculus would impair these 'issues'

Gone Home had me pushing, pulling, throwing things around at speed (just to make a point aha)

I'm quite avid as i like the Amnesia games and I want to play them with the OR, its quite a profoundly different way of looking into a 3D environment which ive found as above in other games and i dont really like playing games without it now. So i'm waiting for an opengl 'hack' to let me play this game and make a judgement, based on previous experiences, it would be a somewhat scary but great world to get lost in.

Some people in the thread have been talking like they have one and they havent (Some do though it seems), after saying this i can imagine the backlash, you only have to play halflife 2 with the OR to realise that this is going to go a long long way and often the arguments against it seem naive or short sighted. I've never seen anyone i know use an oculus (specifically friends using my unit) and upon leaving the train at the strain station, just stopped, spent ages just looking around, freaking out slightly at the flying eye thing

Sorry for the rant i have more to say but not in the remit of this post

Thankyou Frictional for producing some of the best, if not the best, horror experiences on any kind of screen, be it Penumbra or Ascent, and its stuff that will never leave me, i'm not being pushy, i just dont want to play MFP without an oculus rift, just a flat crappy monitor.. a monitor that is a window into another world that in itself lacks any depth?

I don't buy how there's an evangelical horde of people saying 'you dont need more immersion! The Amnesia series is making full immersion games that you watch through a window on your desk, and thats as immersive as it gets, folks! Whereas.. OR's like.. being there! - I got it with Outlast (It's terrifying in OR, so-so without), and just for fun cause people were saying moving stuff would be harder in Amnesia, i shot around Gone Home opening all the things.. i dont see a problem?

Anyways, info for any acolytes: An Oculus Rift is a headset using lenses to view a postprocessed image of the game you are playing when it's using the OR sent to each eye with each image taken in-game from two different views judged to be the distance between your two pupils. Because of this part (Imo the important part) it gives a profound sense of depth perception which is really hard to imagine should you have never tried it. Then as you rotate your head it provides headtracking information into a matrix that can then modify the game's camera transform matrix and recreate the moment. So it looks like you're inside a tangible other world.

You have to try it or there's just no point talking about it, you cant tell someone who has used one regularly what its going to be like. And everyone i've ever met who has used one, is convinced that people would have to be a little backwards to prefer a monitor.. i think i've already come to the point where if im going to be playing games on my pc it will be on an OR, or bust

And my dev work is going into research work into psychotherapy using the OR, a field it could have profound influences on

I wont be buying machine for pigs unless it's supported by the OR officially or some bright spark makes a tridef-style 'hack' to let me play opengl games in a similar way.

A mouse pointer is still a mouse pointer in the end, oculus does not do away with this, mouse pointers do what they always did, the controls i just cant see being any different?

God, rant and half, sorry!

I just really wanna play the damn thing on OR, so waiting for either some official note (Im assuming theve played halflife 2 with it, to get the immersion thang, reactions to it without playing with it could be considered as unprofessional), or for someone to cook up opengl drivers so i can use that to play the game, but not until then, and people judging the OR based on absolutely no first hand experience, shame on you!

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I'm not sure how you feel but there's no project on the Rift development showcase I've tried that I would point to and say 'that's how to do it'

You know what, since some of us would like to be able to play amnesia with an OR, i'll make it a lil sideproject to be done with Unity - a demo of being able to do physical actions in the game with oculus rift which best represents Amnesia's examples. If that's interesting to anyone (And are prepared that it may become vapourware as i have a lot on at the moment).

I havent even had a try with the OR sdk and Unity yet so what better a time

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Sorry for spam, was just watching a rerun of Dark Descent (This will keep me entertained all day), and just realised the control scheme is a lot more starightforward than i remember.

Just because your head is decoupled from your body doesnt mean the interaction spot has to change, i had a fancy idea how to do this then i thought why not align the body rotation with the head if you're using something. Thats about it, just means when not using things or you are carrying things you have some sense of being able to observe around you.

The subject of depth perception, that is what makes the OR a winner is getting much underplayed here, when i could probably make being able to gauge a distance much better

[cdoublejj]

it don't see a week or month go by that OR + isn't mentioned on reddit.

http://www.dorkly.com/comic/54149/the-ho...culus-rift

it's becoming a popular reference. i feel like sooner or later it's gonna happen or at the very least it's gonna be a hot topic of discussion that will often reach outside of the GF forums.

I skimmed Statyk's post, don't see why the camera couldn't be controlled by head tracking and the mouse do stuff like pushing and pulling like it normally does for objects.

[Adrianis]

* post

Let me just clear up one very important point, because I agree with what you say (although your accusations are a little... unwelcome )

My post was pointing out that a good rift integration is not plug-and-play. I'm not saying its impossible, I'm saying it's not easy, and it's risky, and it will take some time, and that there is no *standard* defined yet.

I, like you, absolutely intend to keep exploring how we can make a good interactive system with the Rift. I don't want it to seem like I'm against that. It just might not be the best idea for a small(ish) indie studio like Frictional to spend a lot of time exploring design decisions when they are making a living off of it, considering the Rift still might not take off in a big way



Incidentally, if you want to team up to try out some stuff or just discuss the code/design used, hit me up with a PM! I'm also on the Unity forums by this name (Adrianis) so you can get me there too. We could probably come up with a bunch of examples pretty quickly if we bounce ideas around.
I've written some similar interaction stuff that Amnesia has in UDK (the door control & grabbing objects), no first person stuff in Unity yet but I don't have Unity Pro so no rift on that (still have my 4 month trial key, though!).

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I skimmed Statyk's post, don't see why the camera couldn't be controlled by head tracking and the mouse do stuff like pushing and pulling like it normally does for objects.[/font]

Skim my post, then

[GrixM]

So it seems SOMA won't be out until 2015, right? By then the Rift consumer version will have been released and I am 99% sure that it will become very popular and be considered 100% essential for decent immersion before long. Therefore I expect SOMA will have rift support. Anything else would be setting the game up for a big failure and disappointment.

[Acies]

So it seems SOMA won't be out until 2015, right? By then the Rift consumer version will have been released and I am 99% sure that it will become very popular and be considered 100% essential for decent immersion before long. Therefore I expect SOMA will have rift support. Anything else would be setting the game up for a big failure and disappointment.

It would be cool, but not a a big failure and disappointment.

[GrixM]

So it seems SOMA won't be out until 2015, right? By then the Rift consumer version will have been released and I am 99% sure that it will become very popular and be considered 100% essential for decent immersion before long. Therefore I expect SOMA will have rift support. Anything else would be setting the game up for a big failure and disappointment.

It would be cool, but not a a big failure and disappointment.

I think it would be. It's just my opinion of course, but I can't really imagine being able to fully enjoy non-rift games after it's released. It's like the step from 2D to 3D. Do you know many 2D games that are as immersive as 3D games?

[PutraenusAlivius]

Setting up SOMA to be compatible with OR is NOT a massive failure. Probably for most of the community.

OR in just basically playing a game with it's screens at your eyes.