Hello friends of RPGs, I think it's time to open a seperate thread about Gothic and probably here will come some new people who would give it a try. Gothic was released in 2001 and was one of the first open world RPGs with fully implemented NPC voices. It's not a mainstream game - Gothic was made by a small group of students which wanted to create their own dream and something unique. Unlike most of other RPGs you will not be a strong superhero who has to kill monsters to get skill points and then creating your own character. In Gothic you are a normal weak person who was pushed into a mining colony which is like a "prison" and you have to survive. There are a lot of Adventure elements and the story is totally unknown at the beginning.
For everyone who would like playing a hardcore RPG, he shouldn't miss the Gothic series. I like it so much, because it's different to other RPGs and has an awesome rough atmosphere. With this thread I also want to release my "support" for the games.
From the idea to the game
Once upon a time, in which real RPG heroes carried pages of documents with all their character values in order to prove their identity and as the population of a RPG world stood at the same places day and night to always apply quests to the hero, it came to pass... something like this could be the story that led to the emergence of the Gothic series begin.
Founded in October 1997 in Bochum under the name "Piranha Bytes" a small game studio that made itself the task of creating a RPG, as the world had not seen before. Much wanted to do differently, better, more innovative.
Why Gothic?
Even where the final name of the project comes, the devs can explain, "We were looking for a name that was a little darker, dirtier, dirtier than the usual fantasy titles. Just as our game should be like: no flowers and Fantasy Bees, no funny cuddly trees, but something more "substantial". The word Gothic has several meanings. Among other things, it is a synonym for barbaric, gruesome, dark. Even the literary genre gloomy horror novels, the Gothic novels, it gave the name. Literary classics in the genre such as Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, Bram Stoker's Dracula or the stories of Edgar Allan Poe, a particularly sinister medieval image is often invoked in order to intensify the feelings of the reader and cause shivers. What was more, a game that was a dark story in an archaic world, to name a Gothic? By the way: the same named modern youth culture and music scene, however, has nothing to do with the game.
"The launch of Gothic was when three students presented a written RPG demo in Pascal in Greenwood", Alex Brüggemann said. "The demo reminded of Ultima Underworld and we had a great desire to make an RPG, because we are all RPG fans and private do not really want the economy simulators at which we have worked at Greenwood."
The scenario of the game itself is quickly outlined: In a huge open-air prison, whose magical boundary makes escape impossible to fight several groups of prisoners in a profoundly medieval world for influence and power. Three camps watching each other, jealously protecting their vested rights and interests. In there another nameless prisoner is thrown. And he succeeds in what even the magicians who created them, seemed impossible. But this is just a kind of side effect of the struggle with the obligatory story.
Gothic sets new standards
Indeed, Gothic should be different from much of what distinguished role-playing so far. More realism was the watchword. Piranha Bytes did not pursue on extensive character stats as well as on the improvement of individual complex values, where the player do not always know for what character skills are exactly for. Gothic should therefore be more plausible, because you no longer had to upgrade your own game character massively with points. Intuitive level improvements should take place and it should be done directly in the game world, not on any administrative screens with tables of numbers.
For credible implementation of this idea, the teacher helped, NPC in the game world, from which the player dialog could learn certain skills. Without a slider or menu operation in a character sheet. This also contributed as other typical features of the game at a phenomenal feeling. An initially rudimentary crafting system, where you forge directly into the game world on the anvil and sharpen a sword on the whetstone and then could actually received a sharpened sword in your inventory, increased the realism. New or at least never consistently implemented as were the daily routines of the NPC in the game world. Hardly an NPC standing all day in the same place, all went their own activities and to substitute the place to find a daily schedule. Woke up a digger in the morning in his hut in the old warehouse, so he washed next to a puddle and then went to an other NPC at a campfire to share some camp gossip at some point again in the evening to go to his tent and sleeping . Such behavior contributed significantly to the credibility of the world.
Added to this was the dynamic day and night cycles, which let the player actually experience the passing of time. At night you could put in a bed and sleep in order to wake up the next morning feeling refreshed again and continue adventure. Even the NPC responded understandable to the player's actions. Who pulled out his weapon, had to reckon with appropriate defensive reactions on the part of the NPC in the vicinity, including the right spells.
Fights were not turn based or indirectly controlled, but immediately implemented. This action-packed approach was rather unusual for RPGs. Direct sword fights that have not been calculated in the background with cube results, it was more usual for shooters with fantasy setting like the Heretic / Hexen-series by Raven Software. This approach also causes the acquired skills of the game character were less crucial but more those of the player at the keyboard led. Also it contributed to a more direct experience, because it's not the character who defeated an opponent because of so many points in a certain skill, but because the player himself had been clever enough.
Gothic and fans
After its release, the game was an instant success, some long weeks ranked in the top places of PC games sales charts, beating countless players alike. The press was enthusiastic and awarded scores. In a test of PC Games it calls "Gothic is a paradise for role-players, explorers and adventurers." Other testers praised the game and rated it better than the former competitors Ultima IX Ascension - one of the rare time RPG with 3D world, however, many players had little disappointed.
Should not remain unmentioned that Gothic was at first very full of bugs. Including numerous bugs that completely prevented a game from. Important door winches could no longer move, story-related quest items disappeared without a trace from the inventory, important NPC did not start its dialogue, so that the story did not intervene to advance, on some graphics cards, Gothic was not working. After several patches, however, the game gets more bug-free. Of the remaining, smaller issues have been fixed out by many later community users.
The active modding community was then with the successor "Gothic II: Night of the Raven".
You should remember, that it's often not very easy to get old games running on modern systems, but Gothic runs very well. There are just a few issues, so that you find all fixes here in one single bundle! You just have to extract the archive, copy all files to the game directory and overwrite the existing files.
Note that your games must be already patched to the latest versions before using the fixes!
Changelog
- Fixed possible crashes of missing game files.
- Added widescreen support by correcting the FOV.
- Fixed some visual bugs in the world (black box in the swamp).
- Updated Miles Sound System.
- Enhanced level-of-detail to the maximum quality.
- Enhanced view ranges of objects and plants.
- Fixed a problem in video scaling, where the videos were not shown on modern OS.
- Support for really high resolutions.
- Diverse ini tweaks & optimizations.
- A lot of system compatibility fixes (full changelog).
- Removed 25 FPS limitation of the engine.
Changelog
- Added official script-patch.
- Remastered a broken video that caused a game crash.
- Added widescreen support by correcting the FOV.
- Changed menu font color from yellow to red for a better visibility.
- Included VDFS-Patch.
- AA and AF support by graphics driver.
- Fixed a problem in video scaling, where the videos were not shown on modern OS.
- Support for really high resolutions.
- Diverse ini tweaks & optimizations.
- A lot of system compatibility fixes (full changelog).
- Increased global view range of the world.
This bundle comes with all three Gothic games and AddOns in a box!
And you have the possibility to play Gothic II classic and Gothic II Night of the Raven, which is a fully integrated AddOn. Don't play the classic version, because with the AddOn it's like a Gold Edition with many improvements and extra content integrated in the main game.
What you should know:
Gothic I and II are designed to play without mouse. There is of course mouse support, but don't be worried why it's not really accessible. For moving you should use the arrow keys instead of WASD. And for actions (picking up items or talk to NPCs etc.), you have to press "ctrl" plus one of the arrow keys!
Move: Arrow keys
Char Sheet: B
Quest Log: N
Sneak: C
Inventory: Tab
Melee Weapon: 1
Ranged Weapon: 2
Jump: Alt + Arrow up
Actions: Ctrl + Arrow keys
And don't change the brightness settings! The game is gloomy how it wants to be. This is important to enjoy the maximum experience in the rough world of Gothic!
And at the end an "easteregg" that happens in the old camp, where the group "InExtremo" is playing a concert.
But in some international versions of the game it was cutted out, because of marketing/copyrights.
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2015, 04:10 PM by Googolplex.)
I've made several attempts to play Gothic and always ended up abandoning it due to terrible controls and for other reasons. I love the concept and music though, hopefully I will sit down and play it till the end some day.
(08-22-2013, 06:18 PM)Bridge Wrote: I've made several attempts to play Gothic and always ended up abandoning it due to terrible controls and for other reasons. I love the concept and music though, hopefully I will sit down and play it till the end some day.
Hey, I totally understand you. Old games are often a bit thick and gnarled in the controls, not so smoothly like modern games. I also needed a second try to become familiar. But that's normal. You need much time, especially for a RPG. Every game needs time to feel in.
At the least you reaches the second chapter, you will really enjoy the game. The beginning may is a bit "boring" beacuse you need to empathize first and you don't know about the true story.
We also could say that about Amnesia. Some people could say it's too slow, no action scenes etc. and the story also takes a big role in the later part of the game.
Give it an other try. And remember you don't need the mouse for playing. It's easier when just use the keypad. And don't be worried about the english synchronization, I've heard it is not the best, but that shouldn't harm to play the game.
You just need a lot of time and patience.
I now started playing Gothic 2 again. It's already 12 years old and looks still amazing.
(08-22-2013, 06:28 PM)Ye Olde Aldi Wrote: Is that the Quake engine? I swear to god that looks like the Quake engine.
No, the engine is called "ZenGin" or even "Gothic-Engine" and was created by the devs itself.
Also included "Arcania: Gothic 4" which was created by an other developer. But this thread mainly should be about the original first two Gothic games in the series.
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2014, 08:52 PM by Googolplex.)
(08-22-2013, 06:33 PM)Googolplex Wrote: Hey, I totally understand you. Old games are often a bit thick and gnarled in the controls, not so smoothly like modern games. I also needed a second try to become familiar. But that's normal. You need much time, especially for a RPG. Every game needs time to feel in.
At the least you reaches the second chapter, you will really enjoy the game. The beginning may is a bit "boring" beacuse you need to empathize first and you don't know about the true story.
We also could say that about Amnesia. Some people could say it's too slow, no action scenes etc. and the story also takes a big role in the later part of the game.
Give it an other try. And remember you don't need the mouse for playing. It's easier when just use the keypad. And don't be worried about the english synchronization, I've heard it is not the best, but that shouldn't harm to play the game.
You just need a lot of time and patience.
Why not? Your words inspired me to give it another shot.
(08-22-2013, 07:14 PM)Bridge Wrote: Why not? Your words inspired me to give it another shot.
When ever you have a question or problem, post it here. I gladly help out.
You can play the game with WASD and Mouse, but it's easier to use the arrow keys to control (no mouse needed). With the arrow keys you move around and when you press action (Ctrl) and arrow up, you will interact with items, fight, climbing a ladder or sth. When you fight, you also could use action + arrow left/right to swing a weapon. To open a chest, use action + arrow up, or when it's locked you can open it with a picklock and use arrow left/right instead arrow up. It's very easy at all. When picking up the items in a chest, you have to use action + arrow right. The same you do when trading with an other NPC.
I think that should help with the controls.
As I said, it's very easy when you know how to move and use actions.
Silent Hill is much much more complicated to control and I managed to play the first game via emulator on PC.
(This post was last modified: 08-22-2013, 09:59 PM by Googolplex.)
I've played Gothic and in my opinion it is a very decent game, and I rank it among the best RPG-s I've played. Yes, the controls are awful and the RPG system in general is crap, but the world of Gothic is very interesting and beautifully crafted, and the ingame characters are excellent and you grow fond of them quickly. I also played the second installment and while it was improved on many fronts, I didn't quite like the way the plot developed and eventually ended, so I still think the first one is a little better.
Anyway, I would like to play the third installment, but I've heard it is so bugged that it isn't worth the trouble. Is this true?
I also have to say that the controls are laughable. I've tried twice to play the game, both times ending the same way... Getting annoyed by the controls + few other things which have always plagued the whole series.
As much as I love the second Gothic, I cannot say the same about the first. It may be good game, but for me it's very hard to get hold of the controls. Maybe I'll force myself someday to play it through.
I got a good handle on the controls after a bit but navigating in the middle of combat is still hell. And the way they implemented shops/trader screens is just inexcusably unintuitive.
I will say though that for only being a little ways through there are several little things I really appreciate about it. Dynamic music loading fades smoothly in and out, and voice-over is pretty well-acted and from a cast larger than one you could fit in the studio closet, both which are more than I can say for some RPGs I could mention.
Hmm... I played a lot of games which are by far more annoying in the controls than Gothic. For example The Witcher 1 and Silent Hill series. All of them are excellent games, but with horrible controls. I wouldn't say that the controls of Gothic are so bad. In contrary, they are very easy when you know how. And I like the decent style more than a modern action crap where you have just to click on the mouse to kill a boss. Gothic shouldn't played with mouse, you have to press "ctrl" for action and then "arrow up" for a frontal hit, or left/right for a side hit. What is difficult there?
Also with the interaction; just press ctrl plus one of the arrow keys.
That it's hard to fight against a horde of monsters is true. But I like that. Gothic is not a hack n slay like Diablo where it's designed to kill monsters by a click on the mouse standing around you. The world of Gothic is dangerous, you shouldn't even go into the forest without an armor and most of "monsters" which are just animals in my opinion and no monsters, are not placed into the world to get the player XP-points. It's just the players choice what to do.
The crafting system was criticized. I just can say that it's probably the best of all RPGs. You can't just combine or manufacture items in the inventory. You need to find a grinding stone to sharpen a sword or an alchemy station to make a potion when you have the ingredients and the skill. You have to interact with the world and not just click on a "button".
I know that people think very different about that, probably some dislike it because Gothic is other than conventional RPGs. But exactly this is the reason why I love it as more. I think that Gothic is a prime exemplare and a game which is designed perfectly. There isn't even a character-choice like it's usual from other RPGs. You are who you are and you are part of a story where it's not possible to change or create your own character face. I'm very proud that Gothic is going a decent way.
That new beginners will just need some time to become familiar, is normal and I also said that I needed time too. But in general Gothic is very simple and well made in the controls. I prefer the combat system more than any other where you have just mouse clicking. Gothic was made to be decent and this is why the combat system is blocky. I can say the same to Penumbra Overture. There is a sense of heavy controls, you should know to swing the hammer isn't very easy for newcomers. But this is a signal that a game is not made to fight something primarly.
(08-31-2013, 05:48 PM)Zgroktar Wrote: Anyway, I would like to play the third installment, but I've heard it is so bugged that it isn't worth the trouble. Is this true?
As the game was released in 2006, it was bugged like an alpha version. There were a lot of critical bugs like corrupted save files, crashes and memory lags. The game was released as it was not ready.
But after 6 years of hard work there were a lot of patches released to make the game playable:
1.04 = Release version
1.07 = Patch#1
1.08 = Patch#2
1.09 = Patch#3
1.12 = Patch#4 (latest official patch by Piranha Bytes)
Version 1.12 fixed a lot of bugs, but the game was still almost unplayable. This was the reason why some of talented users decided to found the Community Patch Team "MadVulture" to polish the game.
1.00-1.40 = First community patches in addition to version 1.12
1.52 = Community patch which makes the game finally playable and removed DVD check.
1.60 = Further community patch and financed by the publisher
1.70-1.73 = Further community patches called "Enhanced Edition"
1.74 = Most popular community patch
1.75.14 = Latest Community patch
Since version 1.74 there are almost all bugs in the game fixed, new content added, a lot of optimizations and improvements, new balancing, better KI, and much more. The changelog includes a list of thousands of entries! The Gothic 3 "Enhanced Edition" is almost a completely remastered game compared to the original release. Actually it is hard to find a bug. You just need to install the latest patch, it includes all previous patches and is compatible to every version of the game.
Scroll the changelog here to see how many improvements has been added by the community.
(This post was last modified: 09-01-2013, 03:52 PM by Googolplex.)
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