[SPOILER] Plot Discussion Thread *Spoiler Alert*

[Lazoriss]

Dunno if this has been brought up yet, but wanted to discuss a little something.

http://cghub.com/images/view/634683/


Here's a nice close-up image of the game's icon (Done by the amazing David Satzinger).
I'd just like to suggest that the eye is actually that of a Wretch (who are shown to have blue eyes). But the interesting part is that the figure in the reflection is most likely your character, Mandus. I originally thought the orange glow was from the lantern, but he appears to be holding it in his other arm... Regardless, that would make this the only official art featuring the protagonist released. I always thought it kinda weird how there was never any concept art for Mandus (and that would support the theory that you the player are actually a manpig). But the reflection here seems fairly human given what little we can see.


http://cghub.com/images/view/623053/


Here's the cover art, also done by David. I'd like to point out the art on the mask's forehead resembles an orb on some sort of pedestal with a heart decor on it. Although the color of said pedestal could also suggest it being blood cascading from it, as if the "orb" had been steeped in it.

[Mechavomit]

I originally thought the orange glow was from the lantern, but he appears to be holding it in his other arm...

Not if it's a reflection

[Dagorha]

Ok I've played the game twice and getting the entire plot is quite difficult but here seems to be the order of events

Mandus' Kids are Born, wife dies and part of Mandus' mind begins to break down

Mandus' goes to Mexico, discovers an ancient ruin and an egg. He sees a vision of the future and kills his children after seeing them die in WW1. His psyche then fractures and inhabits part of the orb and gets run of Mandus' body as "good" Mandus is put into a kind of sleep.

Mandus comes back home and begins by changing his servants, possibly himself and possibly the remains of his kids into something less then human

Mandus then begins to work on a machine designed to slaughter people, using his meat industry knowledge to hide the bodies by selling them as meat as well as mixing in pigs. It doesn't seem as if he gets very far into this part a she plans on activating the machine in full swing on another day

Mandus also creates pig people in order to act as the brute force in gathering product for his machine and other ends. He connects the orb to the machine and evil Mandus and the machine join together

Good Mandus awakens and questions if the entire enterprise is worth it while evil Mandus (now the machine) tells him its neccesary. Good Mandus doesn't buy that and starts wrecking everything stopping at the end to essentially write a suicide note before laying his hands on the wires. He lives but loses his memory. A pig monster then escorts him back into his house where the game begins

Mandus goes looking for his children and The Machine tricks Mandus into undoing his work and activating it instead as people are dragged back to be processed.

Mandus then sabotages it again, breaking it for good but leaving himself no way out it is presumed he died when he pulled the orb.

Other Notes:

The final scene in the game where Mandus looks inside the iron lung and goes on a conveyor belt and into the temple seems to be entirely fictitious. The reason my assertion is that it appeared as if he had his heart torn out in the very last scene... or at least his chest ripped open and yet he still is capable of talking about how he lied there in the darkness and heard the streets come alive. I think this was merely a metaphor for pulling out the heart of the machine that you didn't actually get to do prior to arriving in that space. Since we know the Machine and Mandus share a link, the ending seems to be quite poetic.

There seems to be some discrepancies of dates when the kids were killed. There are diary pages that they supposedly written after the point where they would have been killed. It is possible that this was an oversight but judging by how well developed the game was, I highly doubt that that is the answer and nobody and TCR or Frictional picked that up.

The bigger answer probably lies within the notes where he talks about clockwork souls and silver spines. It seems to suggest that Mandus might have tried to recreate his children but only created machines in the end and at some point destroyed them as well. This has some legs as it appears that Mandus might have been tinkering with his own body as suggested by some of the notes

The other possibility is that that notes themselves were never written. Some actually don't make sense in a lot of regards. I mentioned one above about a suicide note but Mandus was wrecking the machine and he stopped to write the note and wax philosophically about redemption? Also how are these notes getting everywhere? Are the pigmen just running slightly ahead and dropping them for the lulz? Was Mandus really this lazy about leaving his memoir? Also he wrote a note while having a terrible disease that he needed to be dragged from his car. So how did he find the energy to write then?

As for the big mystery of the man in the iron lung... it's Mandus. Not literally obviously but it makes too perfect since from a symbolic stand point. Mandus is inside the machine but he is on the verge of life and death as Mandus just needs to rip out the heart of the machine in the same way as he killed his sons. The ending where he sits in the chair make perfect sense after that where he rips open his chest and yet can still keep talking about how he saw the machine shut down. Also if you look at that area again you see how little sense it makes. An iron lung to a conveyor belt to a temple. Up until this point, Mandus' machine made sense in it's design but this doesn't. Throw in the fact that you never disconnected the heart of the machine because you white out at that moment you get to it. Add in another little known fact that white outs are more typically used for some form of illusion or hallucination as opposed to a blackout which simply means the character passed out... usually.

I think that's every big mystery... oh there was one line where The Machine talks about how it's just rotten architecture before Mandus' sacrificed his children. Some take it to mean that the machine had to be built in its entirety but i don't think we need to assume that as we know Mandus probably piggy backed on his existing machine to build the new one and the rotten architecture just refers to the old machine. It could also be a metaphor for Mandus' mind, in that Mandus was just another pig like every other rich person until he killed his kids and birthed evil Mandus. Rotten Architecture in this case would simply be Mandus' mind

[Lazoriss]

I originally thought the orange glow was from the lantern, but he appears to be holding it in his other arm...

Not if it's a reflection

Yes, the glow being lantern light would match its position in-game, seeing how it's mirrored and the lantern is wielded by your left hand. But I wouldn't expect the artist to be THAT acute in detail. The orange glow is most likely there for aesthetic reasons (orange compliments blue and yadayada).

[Lazoriss]

Does anyone here know a decent deal of Aztec mythology? I've been reading on it the past couple nights after work and was, in particular, drawn to Tezcatlipoca and Quetzacoatl. The game references the jaguar and feathered serpent, which would be these two gods respectively. There are several different versions to the mythos behind them, but they were both brothers and rivals. Tezcatlipoca was a god of death, black magic, and judgement (and overall represented the night and earth). He was able to see into the hearts and minds of people and would pass judgement on who was worthy or not. He demanded a huge amount of blood sacrifice in order to keep the earth sated, and would often work through radical and catastrophic change.
Questzacoatl was a more benevolent god. Representing the morning star and sky, he controlled the rain , brought knowledge and was capable of resurrecting the dead. When the two brother worked together, they were able to create the earth, sky, and mankind itself. But the two would often fight and strike each other down. In one version Tezcatlipoca tempts Questzacoatl into sin, deceives him, then forces him into exile.

Just pointing out that once Mandus finds the orb, he begins to change radically. It would also seem that at some point it splits, creating these two opposing personalities in Mandus. One is an inventor who spends a fortune on improving the pigline and making it more humane. He becomes obsessed with bringing back his dead children and talks of creating a better world for everyone. As time goes on things become more dark and twisted. The manpig experiments in creating an improved human race, a massive machine that reaches down into some sinister ruins. A voice that starts saying that mankind can no longer be saved, and must instead be sacrificed to cleanse the earth. The butchery is no longer just running pigs through it, but also people, and the manpigs are made into slaves that service the machine. In the game the machine deceives you and begins to mercilessly feed off the people of London, while you must travel into the depths of the earth to strike it down.

I guess I like to draw parallels here between the two halves of Mandus and these Aztec gods. :| The Machine would be Tezcatlipoca, while your protagonist Mandus is Quetzacoatl...

But then I also could be way the fuck off and going absolutely bloody nowhere with this whole tangent! °˖✧◝(⁰▿⁰)◜✧˖°

[blueberry]

Why can't Frictionalgames update AAMFP so you can lit ANY light source? I mean... you can lit the candles in the church etc but why not everything else?

[Alardem]

Just pointing out that once Mandus finds the orb, he begins to change radically. It would also seem that at some point it splits, creating these two opposing personalities in Mandus. One is an inventor who spends a fortune on improving the pigline and making it more humane.

More efficient, not humane. From what I understand, all those notes about how to properly kill the 'product' were referring to murdering people, not pigs.

[Lazoriss]

Just pointing out that once Mandus finds the orb, he begins to change radically. It would also seem that at some point it splits, creating these two opposing personalities in Mandus. One is an inventor who spends a fortune on improving the pigline and making it more humane.

More efficient, not humane. From what I understand, all those notes about how to properly kill the 'product' were referring to murdering people, not pigs.

And there was also the talk between Mandus and the professor where Mandus rants about how the line isn't truly humane, especially when compared to the standards of society's poor. :I But I don't know exactly when the line began having people added. I thought that idea came after the line was renovated and the manpigs had been made.

[Alardem]

Looking at the Amnesia wiki, I'm rather perturbed at the wiki's assumption that Mandus was 'actually a very kind and compassionate man'. He's more of a self-appointed savior, the imperialist, the bully who thinks every terrible thing he does is for the victim's own good.

And I don't think his notes ever indicate a genuine concern for people. He hates them. He's a misanthrope who masturbates to his own perceived superiority and justifies his evil by claiming he's no worse than anyone else. Even before his trip to Mexico, his interest in machinery is derived in the interest of profit, not for anything related to 'safety'. I'd say all that really changed after his return from the Aztec ruins, aside from the supernatural hijinx, is that he starts adding a benevolent facade to his initially callous business. He already was building machines to slaughter pigs - he's simply extended the definition of 'pig'.

[VaeVictis]

Looking at the Amnesia wiki, I'm rather perturbed at the wiki's assumption that Mandus was 'actually a very kind and compassionate man'. He's more of a self-appointed savior, the imperialist, the bully who thinks every terrible thing he does is for the victim's own good.

And I don't think his notes ever indicate a genuine concern for people. He hates them. He's a misanthrope who masturbates to his own perceived superiority and justifies his evil by claiming he's no worse than anyone else. Even before his trip to Mexico, his interest in machinery is derived in the interest of profit, not for anything related to 'safety'. I'd say all that really changed after his return from the Aztec ruins, aside from the supernatural hijinx, is that he starts adding a benevolent facade to his initially callous business. He already was building machines to slaughter pigs - he's simply extended the definition of 'pig'.

I've spoken to the owner of that wiki many times about locking the articles. He declined each time. I've deleted and edited many a article there, but for each deleted speculative article, three more rush in, reworded but saying the same thing. Very annoying.
Oswald's that endswald, I guess.