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My main problem with AMFP: Observer vs. Participator
HarshlyCritical Offline
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#1
My main problem with AMFP: Observer vs. Participator

I believe The Dark Descent to be the finest horror game ever made, and the scariest game I have ever played. One of the things I particularly enjoyed about it was how immersive it was. The game seemed to "react" to how I played, and I felt like I was genuinely a part of the story. I was a participator.

I also enjoyed thechineseroom's remake of Dear Esther. I liked reading, hearing and seeing how the whole thing played out. The game was beautiful; soundtrack, environments, the works. And I was fine with simply watching. I was an observer.

Now we come to A Machine For Pigs. Where I felt like I was an observer, but periodically teased with participation.

I felt like this was a game that could not decide whether it wanted to be a visual novel like Dear Esther, or a puzzle-driven adventure like the original Amnesia. Much like the deformed half-men, half-beasts that populated the Machine's underground network, we got an amalgamated bastardization that tried to do both.

That may sound harsh, but let me elaborate. The reason this game was so infuriating for me was not due simply to a lack of interactivity with random objects, or lack of scare factor/monster encounters, it was the overall narrative inconsistency. I feel as though the puzzle-oriented interaction and brief, mostly scripted monster encounters felt out of place compared to the other 4/5 of the game, which was walking from point A to point B and reading multiple notes along the way.

Walk over here, read this note. Walk over there, read that note. Then, you reach out to grab a box and see if you can hoist yourself up to another area, and the game slaps away your hand, saying "NO! What are you doing? Be a good little player, and go through that door over there. We are master storytellers at work here, would you mind not interrupting? Please, just enjoy the expertly crafted linear experience."

I was also bothered by how pretentious this game was. To call the game an exercise in narcissism may be too far, but it certainly turned me off with how often it insisted upon its own brilliance.

I believe I read something like 40 documents and 20 mementos over the course of 4 hours. Most of the game was spent reading. I'm fine with this, I enjoyed reading the notes in The Dark Descent. But while the writing was technically impressive, it felt like it was so focused on impressing me with its intelligence and shocking me with its visceral descriptions that it wasn't engaging to read. I felt like I was being forced to read it. I felt like the game had grabbed my head, pressed my nose to the page, and shouted at me "Read this! This story is deep, dark and twisted. Don't you want to understand what's happening?"

By the time I began experiencing monster chase sequences and cool sections of the game like the "ransack", it was too late. I felt so detached from the game, so stuck in "observer mode", so numb to what I felt the game was forcing me to experience, that I found it difficult to cooperate with the game. Murderous pig-men would run up to me, and I would lethargically trod the opposite direction. I would be walking through narrow hallways and hear a hideous pig-man enter from somewhere deep in the maze of corridors, and it did not effect any reaction from me.

Once I finished the game, I was relieved. I felt like I had been trapped in an experiment for the past several hours. But the research scientists had put away their clipboards, and I finally had control over what I was allowed to experience once more!

There were some excellent things about AMFP. The voice acting was outstanding, the soundtrack was magnificent and there were several parts of the game that were executed very, very well. And the first half an hour of the game was just fine; I didn't feel inhibited, I didn't feel like I was being preached to, and I felt like I could define my own experience.

Later, this game made me feel like I was in timeout. And in timeout, my "artistically inclined" Uncle Steve read his latest novel to me cover-to-cover as punishment. Meanwhile, my friends tossed the ball around across the room and said "Hey, come play with us! Oh wait, you're in timeout."

But I digress.

Thank you for reading if you did, I just had to get this off my chest. I like some things about AMFP, but I really wish that they had made me feel like I was a part of the magic. It would have helped to have proper expectations going in, I agree, but I still feel that the narrative did not offer a consistent experience. And that's the main reason I did not enjoy it.
09-13-2013, 12:11 AM
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gremstein Offline
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#2
RE: My main problem with AMFP: Observer vs. Participator

I totally agree. I feel like this would have made a much better movie than a game. I really wanted to like this game, but perhaps that was the problem. I was so ready to love this game, I thought it would be like a ramped up tricked out version of the first game, but instead all I got was a stripped down linear version of it.

I can appreciate trying something new, wanting to experiment, wanting to branch out, all that, that's all fine. But if you want to do that, why not just make it it's own separate identity? Why include the Amnesia title to it, other than just easy recognition? I don't know what "Dear Esther" is, but I've seen alot of reference to it on other threads. I assume it's one of TCR's own games. Whatever it is, that isn't what I waited for, that isn't what I paid for. I bought this game expecting an Amnesia game, only to not receive one.

If they are going to allow textures/object/etc from MFP to be used in TDD custom stories, then I will feel a little better about it. I would love to see what the CS community can do with all that steampunk scenery. But for me to be more excited about community authored content rather than the actual game... just feels wrong.

I will continue to support Frictional Games, I have no ill will towards them at all. They said hell with it, let's try it and see what happens. I can respect them taking a risk like that in order to try to give us something different. I just feel like it went too far off the rails.
09-13-2013, 12:44 AM
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Kreekakon Offline
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#3
RE: My main problem with AMFP: Observer vs. Participator

First off, kudos to people here actually giving an effort to offer constructive, level-headed criticism about the game Smile

Something I will agree with is that I did think the writing was too poetic...if that was what you were getting at. I feel like many of the notes, messages, or mementos could've served the same message, and might even have been better off being spoken in layman's terms instead of artistic novel talk.

As for the main nature of the thread which is likely pointing out the identity crisis of AMFP in whether it wants to be a visual novel, or a puzzle-driven adventure...I'd say that it indeed is in-arguably a mixture of both types of games. It very well could've been told differently leaning more towards the ADD vibe which would most definitely appeal to more old-time Amnesia fans.

FG, and TCR however decided not to go this route, and go with experimentation to see how well mixing stuff like this together would turn out. As with all experiments it will definitely turn out different for good, or for worse. Some people will seemingly like their stories being told in this different way while others may not.

I cannot argue against any of the OP's claims since in the general view of it they are all valid complaints in my opinion. I personally enjoyed the game very much, and felt compelled enough to go on because the story intrigued me, and the occasional obstacle/puzzle segment was just enough to keep things varied for me.

[Image: Tv0YgQb.gif]
Image by BandyGrass
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2013, 01:19 AM by Kreekakon.)
09-13-2013, 01:17 AM
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Argoon Offline
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#4
RE: My main problem with AMFP: Observer vs. Participator

Totally agree with the tread maker i could not say it any better, i also need to point out that the trailer painted a totally different idea of what the game would be on my head, the trailer showed a frightening and dangerous scenario and then what i got was something to much different imo.
And has i said on other threads i love Dear Esther, (other game with totally different opinions some love it like me and others hate it with passion), i love it because it was exactly what i was expecting, a beautiful interactive novel with fantastic scenarios (i almost cried when i saw the caves), excellent voice acting and excellent music, the exact same things that i love in AMFP, but unfortunately what i loved about Amnesia is just not there.

And i can't do anything about it, some can say i'm dumb or that i was expecting unrealistic things, but my feelings about this game aren't what i was expecting at all. I will continue supporting both developers because i believe in them and i know they have the know how to deliver fantastic experiences in both their camps.
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2013, 01:46 AM by Argoon.)
09-13-2013, 01:42 AM
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HarshlyCritical Offline
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#5
RE: My main problem with AMFP: Observer vs. Participator

(09-13-2013, 01:17 AM)Kreekakon Wrote: Something I will agree with is that I did think the writing was too poetic...if that was what you were getting at. I feel like many of the notes, messages, or mementos could've served the same message, and might even have been better off being spoken in layman's terms instead of artistic novel talk.

As for the main nature of the thread which is likely pointing out the identity crisis of AMFP in whether it wants to be a visual novel, or a puzzle-driven adventure...I'd say that it indeed is in-arguably a mixture of both types of games. It very well could've been told differently leaning more towards the ADD vibe which would most definitely appeal to more old-time Amnesia fans.

FG, and TCR however decided not to go this route, and go with experimentation to see how well mixing stuff like this together would turn out. As with all experiments it will definitely turn out different for good, or for worse. Some people will seemingly like their stories being told in this different way while others may not.

Yes, the writing being too poetic is a good way to put it. It seemed like showboating. In the context of a video game, I would much rather read something that was written for clarity than something written for showing off prowess.

Anyway, I forgot to mention in the OP that I did enjoy the story, I only had a problem with its execution. Had the story been told with A:TDD's style, I would have hailed it as a much more enjoyable, twisted plot than the first game. Though the way I experienced the story somewhat soured it for me, I can still say afterwards that it was a solid idea. Mandus' descent into the bowels of the Machine to confront his evil deeds... It's a good premise.
09-13-2013, 05:44 AM
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Alardem Offline
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#6
RE: My main problem with AMFP: Observer vs. Participator

I agree with your premise, but have to differ on the writing. Mandus' love of purple prose is period-appropriate, and the reliance on ambiguity provokes the player to try and make sense of a fractured narrative. The actual story of an industrialist driven mad is rather basic - the writing embellishes it, however, so that we get a sense for the fractured state of the man's psyche.

Different strokes for diff'rent folks, perhaps.
09-13-2013, 05:51 AM
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relentless Offline
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#7
RE: My main problem with AMFP: Observer vs. Participator

I found AMFP to be more an interactive book, a good one but as the OP said one seen from the outside looking in.

Certainly not a failure though and I hope frictional take a good look at the stuff it did well. I loved the subtle pig themes in the house, I've always been creeped out by that since reading the pigman scene in the amityville horror.
09-13-2013, 07:23 AM
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Ossie Offline
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#8
RE: My main problem with AMFP: Observer vs. Participator

Thanks for the mature and detailed analysis John, that was a good read. However, most of the things that you didn't like about the game is what made it so appealing to myself and others.

As for your criticism of the writing - as has already been mentioned (both here and in another thread (the latter by Dan Pinchbeck himself)) the writing style was deliberate and intended to evoke the style of writing of the time and also to evoke the atmosphere of the time. I thought that the writing was wonderful - I savoured every sentence, to me it was perfect.

My suggestion would be to play it again (not as an LP) in a few months or a year - there were obviously some positives that stuck with you and I think that if you delve back into it knowing what to expect you will appreciate it more. Prior expectations are a pain with any medium and often get in the way of enjoying whatever it is that you are reading or watching for the first time. I find this happens to me a lot - I'll give two movies as my own examples (just off the top of my head) - Spielberg's "A.I." and Nolan's "The Dark Knight". I was really disappointed by both on the first viewing, but something about them was good enough to stick in my head. I watched them again some months after the first viewing and enjoyed them even more, and with a few views of each under my belt I think that they are both masterpieces.

But I digress, so here's a plug for John (one of my favorite YouTube Let's Players!) - if anyone wants to see John's LP of AAMFP here's the first two parts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wYGIxPw00U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-Bus9nBHj0

Note: he hasn't finished uploading all of the parts yet.
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2013, 02:57 PM by Ossie.)
09-13-2013, 02:53 PM
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Diango12 Offline
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#9
RE: My main problem with AMFP: Observer vs. Participator

Good points and a good argument by the op. Honestly, if this had been marketed as a different game I wouldn't have a problem with it. Riding on the success of a franchise is a bad practice that plagues the gaming industry. I don't think that TCR and FG gave the wrong impression of the game intentionally. But based on the title, teasers, trailers, screens, developer comments etc. This is a completely different animal than the one hyped up.
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2013, 04:25 PM by Diango12.)
09-13-2013, 04:24 PM
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Janakev Offline
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#10
RE: My main problem with AMFP: Observer vs. Participator

Thank you, Harshly, for wording my thoughts in a more complete and coherent manner than I probably (and have not so far) could. I don't want to start a comprehensive criticism of my own as its not the place and I'd need to carefully consider how the couch my opinions.

While I am familiar with the style of writing , AMfP is not a Victorian novel. I can understand imitating the style in order to evoke a certain atmosphere but it didn't work for me. And that's fine! You can't please everyone.
09-13-2013, 04:40 PM
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