Bad life choices

[Draug]

Oh god, I feel so much hate for jeans (so confining and uncomfortable)...- now I know I'am not alone.

Hm. I'm wearing perfectly fitting jeans atm and they're very comfortable.

Liar! Something like that will never exist!... dunno I developed a disgust towards jeans. Me needz big trousers maan.

[Kman]

jeans are comfortable af you just need the right pair idk whats up with u

[Ghieri]

In general clothing tends to just fall apart while I'm wearing it. For instance, every one of my socks has a hole in them and I shit you not I bought a pair of pants and not 2 days later a hole randomly appeared on one of the legs.

[SchnidlersLeest]

I'm not defending circumcision, but that is an ignorant statement. JAP is from an Islamic background, where it is customary to circumcise boys at ~10 years. It doesn't have anything to do with pleasure, in fact purely non-reproductive sex within marriage is encouraged exactly for the reason of fulfilling ones sexual desires and achieving a closer connection to one's spouse and therefore Allah.

Intentional or not, the consequences of the circumcision still exist. I understand losing 50% of your sexual pleasure in order to get 70 virgins in the afterlife, but that's a non-verifiable promise, and to any atheist it's just downright immoral. The severity of that depends on whether or not JAP chose to have his foreskin removed. I'm guessing he didn't but I might be wrong.

[PutraenusAlivius]

I'm not defending circumcision, but that is an ignorant statement. JAP is from an Islamic background, where it is customary to circumcise boys at ~10 years. It doesn't have anything to do with pleasure, in fact purely non-reproductive sex within marriage is encouraged exactly for the reason of fulfilling ones sexual desires and achieving a closer connection to one's spouse and therefore Allah.

Intentional or not, the consequences of the circumcision still exist. I understand losing 50% of your sexual pleasure in order to get 70 virgins in the afterlife, but that's a non-verifiable promise, and to any atheist it's just downright immoral. The severity of that depends on whether or not JAP chose to have his foreskin removed. I'm guessing he didn't but I might be wrong.

To be fair though, I didn't ask for it. It was a horrible two hour surgery. Yep, it took the doctors 2 hours because the painkillers didn't have an effect on me.

[Bridge]

Intentional or not, the consequences of the circumcision still exist. I understand losing 50% of your sexual pleasure in order to get 70 virgins in the afterlife, but that's a non-verifiable promise, and to any atheist it's just downright immoral. The severity of that depends on whether or not JAP chose to have his foreskin removed. I'm guessing he didn't but I might be wrong.

He doesn't have a choice. In some places in the Arab world you aren't considered a man until you are circumcised. It has nothing to do with 70 virgins (the Koran mentions 72 wives for the faithful), it's just culture and tradition. Wrong or no, it has nothing to do with morals whatsoever. I personally find it horrifying and I do not respect the practice as an uncircumcised atheist, but I don't judge. I wish the practice would cease, and it may, but neither of us have any idea what it is like to grow up or even raise a child in an environment like that. I just find it a little suspect to accuse the parents of being overpious, immoral or even stupid without knowing them.

[SchnidlersLeest]

He doesn't have a choice. In some places in the Arab world you aren't considered a man until you are circumcised. It has nothing to do with 70 virgins (the Koran mentions 72 wives for the faithful), it's just culture and tradition. Wrong or no, it has nothing to do with morals whatsoever. I personally find it horrifying and I do not respect the practice as an uncircumcised atheist, but I don't judge. I wish the practice would cease, and it may, but neither of us have any idea what it is like to grow up or even raise a child in an environment like that. I just find it a little suspect to accuse the parents of being overpious, immoral or even stupid without knowing them.

No, absolutely do judge it. Don't say that you find it horrifying but refrain from judging it. The culture of the society doesn't excuse immoral actions of a person(s) from moral evaluation. There's MORE responsibility on the parents, or whoever made JAP go through that horrendous operation and took away half of his sexual pleasure, if there wasn't even a moral justification. Because that means it was just some sort of preference like "I don't like oranges, so I'm going to go cut that guy's hand off and take the orange out of his axed off hand." Not knowing a murderer doesn't mean he "can't be judged" for having murdered someone. I think what you're talking about is circumstance, like if JAP's parents were forced and gunpoint to removed his foreskin, though I assume that didn't happen. Social pressure and conformity are not the same thing as being forced to do something.

There's one thing that we damn know well happens in that environment, and that's that you get your foreskin cut off as a child without that child's consent.

Child abuse is what leads to violence in society. In the case of Arab societies, though, it's also the destruction caused by several different governments. Especially the mass murdering US military. Just to be clear that I'm aware of the violence currently affecting the adult populations.

[Froge]

^Don't you think you're overreacting by criticizing someone's parents on a forum?

[Alardem]

Yes, cultural relativism is a weak way of avoiding judgment. There are human morals that span cultures, and you have every right to look down on genital mutilation.

[Ghieri]

Yes, cultural relativism is a weak way of avoiding judgment. There are human morals that span cultures, and you have every right to look down on genital mutilation.

^This.