TotalBiscuit: discussion of gameplay and narrative

[Damascus Rose]

This video TotalBiscuit recently made which mentions Brothers, Dear Esther, AMFP, Heavy Rain etc. in a discussion about gameplay and narrative.





Personally I think that he understands what classifies a game and what a game should try to accomplish very well. He's right that games are in an awkward teenage stage where we aren't sure what they should try to accomplish and how to combine gameplay and narrative. His examples are very good (Bioshock Infinite with its gameplay vs. narrative thing), he has interesting points.

My rant on the dear esther/amfp thing:

Spoiler below!

But more importantly (for me), he voiced my frustrations with the way chineseroom designs their games in a way that I was struggling to understand myself.The whole thing that gameplay is core to the experience, you need to feel like you have an effect or you just feel like a spectator. This was my biggest problem when chineseroom get upset when people critisize their lack of gameplay. We all know the chinese room focus on telling a story, but I think they have overlooked a huge factor in games storytelling; that gameplay is actually critical to tell a story in a game. I enjoyed Dear Esther for what it was, which is a short self-contained experience on an island with linear exploration, voice-overs and beautiful environments. The only way I was able to force myself to walk painstakingly slowly through the whole thing is because the environments were so beautiful and enticing. But it was ineffective because I really just felt like a spectator who's sole purpose is to hold down W, it could've been done in more effective ways.

Dear Esther was fine for a 2 hour experience, something to do while relaxing but if anything taken from this and was put in any other game, it would fail miserably. The example being AMFP. It felt like a jumble of poor design decisions to me, a game that wanted desperately to be Dear Esther but was forced to have Amnesia elements because it's a sequel. It was like Dear Esther had this strange virus where it got a bunch of unnecessary puzzles only created to waste time, had pigs running off in the distance just out of reach, and was forced to put all of its monologues into notes. The gameplay removed, (with some exceptions), only serves to detract from the experience, leaving a hole where meaningful player experience used to be. I'm not saying the whole game is like this but this is my overall feel. This gameplay, while flawed, was crucial to the dark descent. You felt immersed in the story because you feel in control of his destiny. His fate is determined by your decisions. Thomas grip mentions this in his tweets which I agree with: https://twitter.com/ThomasGrip/status/39...4383709185
https://twitter.com/ThomasGrip/status/39...0677861377
So, gameplay is definitely something that should be critisized in a game because it has a huge effect on player experience. The way to create a meaningful player experience, or even tell a good story is not to remove as much gameplay as possible, but to blend gameplay and narrative in a creative way. The solution is not to simply remove gameplay.

Yeah so, what are your thoughts on all of this? I'm interested to see what others think/feel.

[Wooderson]

Pretty much agree with him. If anything it gives hope for the future. There is likely to be more shit than good but when is anything any different?

[Damascus Rose]

Yeah, as time goes on there will be better games for sure, even if we will still get more shitty games than good ones!

[Ghieri]

He makes a good point about Dear Esther and the medium. I didn't think that Dear Esther was terrible, but there were points where I got really bored just walking through some parts. It definitely doesn't play to the strengths of the medium, which builds itself on interactivity.

[WALP]

To be honest I find pacing and perspectives alone enough for you to define it a game. But if thats all that gives it the definition like in Dear esther then at the very least you can not deny it is a pretty weak as a game

[Rapture]

That worries me if the quote "We have destroyed the games industry according to TotalBiscuit". TCR is giving insight to it's employees personality(s) if they take criticism to heart, and retaliate in that manner (Which is mild compared to others).

AMFP was pretty, but the lack of throwing objects, stacking boxes to block doors and invisible pink walls everywhere really made it into your typical conveyor belt scare game.
I know some of you really got into the story, but I was dreading half way into it whenever a story bit came. I like Amnesia's / Dark Souls / Demon Souls storytelling a lot better since you have to figure out yourself and you get to make up your own story along with it.

[Damascus Rose]

Yeah. Something about the storytelling in amfp was just off for me.

[WALP]

dont derail this into another AAMFP review/discussion thread please, its getting old.

[Damascus Rose]

dont derail this into another AAMFP review/discussion thread please, its getting old.

Sure, this isn't a review thread after all. But the game is related to the topic, so it will come up anyway

[pecasso]

I welcome the narrative efforts from both Dear Esther and AAMFP to the point of being totally indifferent to the question of whether we're speaking about games or not. We're in the presence of an artistic work. Why would we be bothered about it being a game or not? Because it sells on Steam? I honestly applaud the commercial farce and I'm sure it will be worth it for the scandalous minority that, while being a gamer, will be able to enjoy these titles.


The purging efforts from these "cynical" gaming ambassadors are more about shielding their known world to perpetuate their dominant position than to improve it - they're so afraid of contamination they prefer to die by consanguinity. This is no big surprise if we look into history of art, the critics will always be conservative, but what strikes in the game universe is the common lack of cultural background from a good bit of them, which amplifies the hostility to alien objects.
Games as an art are still in their childhood, we need to be patient.