General problems of RPGs

[Googolplex]

Hi, nice to see some answers. Perhaps I forgot to say that I didn't want to create a Gothic/Skyrim comparison or make something down. It's true that I am a fanboy of Gothic and PB, but that doesn't mean I don't accept anything else. In contrary, as I said I'm very interested in RPGs and always happy to to find well made games. I just spoke about general problems. PB doesn't make everything perfectly, since Gothic 3 there are also "quest" pop-ups and some other casual stuff. Risen also doesn't have the quality from Gothic 1/2, this is why I criticize PB in their modern way of design. I grew up with Gothic. This was my first RPG, not because I was too young or couldn't play previous games in the genre, but Gothic was the first game that exactly meets my interest. I mean the murky atmosphere, the rough dialogues (german original, not the english), the brown trees, the decayed architecture, the weapon and monster design etc. It was a very decent game and this is what people love on it. Don't think it's a middle age simulator.

When you grew up with other RPGs, you should forget everything you know about the genre, because Gothic is different - an own niche in the genre. PB started developing as they were students without a job at all.

A lot of interesting stuff were posted by you, too much to make quotes, therefore I just want to make a short answer:

- Quests
I know that "quests" are used in RPGs since the genre was born, but this is the reason why it reminds me to play a game. Quests are only used in games, so I can't immerse very well into the world - it just feels not credible when using the word. PB is using the word since Gothic 3, so I doesn't automatically like everything of them. In my opinion such things doesn't mediate an immersive feeling. Probably not every game wants to do that, but for me as the player it should.

- Music
Jeremy Soule is a good composer, his music is beautiful. But beautiful is not always the right style for a game. His music fits into RPGs with bright colors, green vegetation, friendly NPCs (elves and fairies for example) with enchanting environments. And people who grew up with his music probably would like it more than others, because music is even better when there is a connection to happenings. The track by Rosenkranz really is one of the most hollywood-like ones, he did better music when you know all the games. Gothic 3 gets rewarded for the best musics (posted some tracks here), but not everything is perfect in this game. The fighting music is really annoying.

-Gameplay
Cuyir mentioned you can steal things as a thief, this is what I also enjoyed in the Gothic/Risen series. A really nice feature when it's designed well, that means you shouldn't always be successful. To steal something should be a risk where other people see you and attack you, and never forget of what you've done. You said, you played a lot of RPGs, so do you play all of the PB games?

-MMOs
Well, this sub-genre is not about story telling, it's more about fun by meeting other people and fight together, get a stronger character and all that. I totally dislike MMOs, but that's only my opinion. I think even a MMO should have greater immersion when it would be done right. Every game should be about immersion in my opinion, but only very few games are so.

[Bridge]

- Music
Jeremy Soule is a good composer, his music is beautiful. But beautiful is not always the right style for a game. His music fits into RPGs with bright colors, green vegetation, friendly NPCs (elves and fairies for example) with enchanting environments. And people who grew up with his music probably would like it more than others, because music is even better when there is a connection to happenings. The track by Rosenkranz really is one of the most hollywood-like ones, he did better music when you know all the games.

This is not true. I question whether you even understand the music by taking such a simplistic view. His music is not simply "beautiful" it is many things, and in the context of the Elder Scrolls games it expresses a lot of profound emotions that give the games an entirely new dimension it wouldn't have otherwise. It is not just a superficial backdrop to the game, as in green grass and blue skies = happy music; gritty and realistic = harsh music. If you truly knew the Elder Scrolls games you would know that the various locales are wildly different in style and color, there are friendly NPCs as well as hostile and that the environments can be enchanting or grim or a nuanced combination of both, and the score to each game, which can not be summed up in one word like you claim, contribute significantly to the atmosphere. Images take on an entirely new meaning.

[Cuyir]

Vvardenfell and Morrowind are one of the ugliest, most unforgiving places i've ever played in an rpg and Jeremy Soule gave them life and context with his music.

They were bleak, ugly and alien places but it all worked perfectly with Soule's music. Like Bridge said, to simplify his music to that extent is doing a disservice to the music and the game.

Not very lush and green, wouldn't you say?

Spoiler below!

I wish I had gameplay uploaded of Morrowind so I could show how the music and environments work so well together but ah well.

[Bridge]

What I also love about Morrowind is the random stock quotes that NPCs repeat endlessly. In any other game, those stock quotes would either be annoying or virtually inaudible, but in Morrowind they are full of life and give the universe a huge amount of depth (I personally think the voice acting is really charming). Things like: "Wealth beyond measure outlander" or "Mournhold! City of light, city of magic!" to name only some of the many great lines just contribute surprisingly much to the experience.

[Googolplex]

GIGA created a look-back video to the Gothic series, containing some interesting secrets. But it's only avaiable in german. Take some look:





@Bridge
Yes, I agree with you. The problem is that I never played the TES series yet. Some games need to be played to get understand. Bought Skyrim days ago, but will play it soon. But don't think this would mean my critics are nonsense until now. I know, that things I mentioned are wrong in such RPGs. Surely it will be a good game like The Witcher is, but it will definitely not blew me away so much as PBs style.

It's like when you play Amnesia as your first horror game and then playing games by other people. Then no other game would beat your first impressions you had with Amnesia and so no other game will meet your expectations again you provide to the genre now. It depends a lot of what you played before and how much. As more games you play, as more you will become familiar and every further game will lose impact. The first one, or the era in which you grew up is always that what you like most.