Religion

[TheWalshinator]

What the hell? It was me who asked, not Cuyir.

And I'm a woman, not a little man.

Oh, sorry, I just responded to the post that I saw in response to my own.
So, which one was it?

[Ghieri]

Paddy has a good description but I'd like to reiterate:

Religion is an organized belief in something, Atheism is neither organized or based on belief.

I think the debate between who's right is fruitless, because Skeptics usually present their ideas and Evangelicals shoot them down or ignore them because "goddunit."

It would be more profitable to debate the effects of religion and current social structures that would benefit from the removal or tolerance of religion.

Anyone want to talk about indoctrination of children?

[HorrorElementFilms]

Well, if anyone's heard of the Westboro Baptist Church, they've been known to heavily indoctrinate children into believing what the parents believe in. Westboro Baptist Church is a radical example, but it would demonstrate how religion tends to continue. The parents feel passionate about their faith, and influence their children to have the same mindset. The parents, typically, grew up in the same environment. Therefore, religion continues.
I was Christian for a short portion of my life, until I started questioning what my parents told me was true. When you start to question, is when you start to learn about reality.

[Cuyir]

Well, if anyone's heard of the Westboro Baptist Church, they've been known to heavily indoctrinate children into believing what the parents believe in. Westboro Baptist Church is a radical example, but it would demonstrate how religion tends to continue. The parents feel passionate about their faith, and influence their children to have the same mindset. The parents, typically, grew up in the same environment. Therefore, religion continues.
I was Christian for a short portion of my life, until I started questioning what my parents told me was true. When you start to question, is when you start to learn about reality.

But not every child can break way from the dogma. It depends a lot on the child's psyche, personality and of course what's around him/her (amongst a variety of other factors).

My family was very religious and my siblings were raised in the same manner; yet it was I who stopped believing because of my curiosity. The others still believe to this day for x or y.

I guess I was also able to break away from the indoctrination because it wasn't pushed as hard on me as it is pushed by some religious families on others. As soon as I pushed back my parents ceased forcing me into religion but I don't know how common my example is.

[Paddy™]

What the hell? It was me who asked, not Cuyir.

And I'm a woman, not a little man.

Oh, sorry, I just responded to the post that I saw in response to my own.
So, which one was it?

This one:

There must have been something before everything else.

Right. So, in your opinion, what was there before God? I mean, there must have been something before him. Or did he come from nothing?

An infinite regress is the only place this argument leads us, in other words.

[HorrorElementFilms]

But not every child can break way from the dogma. It depends a lot on the child's psyche, personality and of course what's around him/her (amongst a variety of other factors).

My family was very religious and my siblings were raised in the same manner; yet it was I who stopped believing because of my curiosity. The others still believe to this day for x or y.

I guess I was also able to break away from the indoctrination because it wasn't pushed as hard on me as it is pushed by some religious families on others. As soon as I pushed back my parents ceased forcing me into religion but I don't know how common my example is.

I should make an exception... of course not ALL people religious because of something as simple as their parents. My aunt, for example, is religious because she went through a tough time. She felt "comfort", in religion, which I guess would be the only non-debatable religious example. If you're just religious because it makes you feel better, it's not like any evidence would make you want to stop feeling better. It would be logically incorrect, but it's not like they'd care anyway.

[CarnivorousJelly]

And which one was that, little man?

It is impossible for any single human, no matter how smart and no matter how wise to come up with these concepts. And humans didn't "evolve" to "learn" the concepts, because that would mean that they were already there. For those who believe in evolution, you are only demoralising yourself. You are choosing to accept that we have no purpose whatsoever, which means that you will often lead yourself to do stupid things. If you still choose to believe this, you may have come from monkeys, but I most certainly did not;
<...Kia edits someone else's post for conciseness...>
As for the people who are saying that "God is the enemy" or "God is a dog", you people need to take a hard look at yourselves, for you were made in His image; and I'm sure you don't go around licking your balls (if you do, I recommend you get some help).
<...Massive post surgery to end of post...>

I believe this (below) was directed in-part at your comment:
(Although I'm not psychic, so I don't know Paddy's intent)

The obligatory mid-thread reminder to stay friendly:

---

1. No flaming/name-calling
   
2. No provocation
   
3. No ad hominems
   

---

Even if it wasn't, I was going to refer you to it earlier today when I read your post.

You seem like a decent guy outside of the religion thread, though, so that might just be me putting the wrong intentions behind the wrong words. My apologies if that is the case.

---

More on-topic. I think Paddy's already said everything I was going to say about atheism, but I'm going to add this link here anyways so I can say I'm agnostic and not get weird looks.

Anyways... I lean more towards identifying as agnostic than atheist just from personal experience. I'm really bad at explaining myself though, so I'll just shut up and let you guys continue this friendly discussion.

[Ghieri]

Well, if anyone's heard of the Westboro Baptist Church, they've been known to heavily indoctrinate children into believing what the parents believe in. Westboro Baptist Church is a radical example, but it would demonstrate how religion tends to continue. The parents feel passionate about their faith, and influence their children to have the same mindset. The parents, typically, grew up in the same environment. Therefore, religion continues.
I was Christian for a short portion of my life, until I started questioning what my parents told me was true. When you start to question, is when you start to learn about reality.

I've always considered Westboro to be the "Boogyman" of Christianity, it brings to light the things that most other people are not willing to admit about their religion. "Yes, your god is angry at the gays. Yes, he hates every nit-picky flaw about you. Yes, god killed our troops. And you are burning unless you subscribe to our brand of Christianity. We are just the only one's with the balls to say it!" I think Bioshock Infinite also had some good commentary in the beginning(you aren't allowed paradise unless you get sworn into our church)

But as for indoctrination of Children, almost every religious family in America is guilty of it. The things you can count on existing in nearly every town are a gas station, a school, and a church. Guess what the church is for?

Personally, I consider it to be child abuse. Forcing a child to suspend critical thinking in favor of believing in whatever deity geography decided you would get. It's partially what gives this country such a bad reputation. That, and the forced pledging to our flag every school morning. It's some scary fascist shit.

[TheWalshinator]

What the hell? It was me who asked, not Cuyir.

And I'm a woman, not a little man.

Oh, sorry, I just responded to the post that I saw in response to my own.
So, which one was it?

This one:

There must have been something before everything else.

Right. So, in your opinion, what was there before God? I mean, there must have been something before him. Or did he come from nothing?

An infinite regress is the only place this argument leads us, in other words.

Oh, I didn't even see that one, thanks Paddy ;)
Ashtoreth: surely you have heard God is the Alpha and Omega; the first and the last. If I were to say that I think there was something before God, I wouldn't only be lying to you, but I would also be lying to myself. And there is nothing more stupid than for one to lie to oneself (not saying I haven't done it before, in fact; I learnt the hard way from it)
I will say no more, but if you guys start saying that God is the enemy or that he is a dog again...
Just... Don't do it.

[Cuyir]

I guess my parting shot will be:

If there ever is a sitcom that has Ghieri and TheWalshinator living together in a two bedroom apartment, i'd watch it religiously.