[WIP] In Lucy's Eyes - Full Conversion Mod

[Juras]

Although there is something that I liked which was the forest sort of look of the outdoor map and it was nice seeing castle backdrops and hills and all that. But, the cabin is pretty useless as of now so you may just place a resource that's needed to get in the castle or something so it would have a purpose.
I noticed that the ghost enemy only has 1 animation (it's just the same anim. for all anim. slots) - is that just for the demo or..?
I'm also just going to ask what's wrong with the witch/ghost's hair, it looks... not that great. It just looks like a bunch of planes at one place and its connection with the head looks very odd. I understand the concept but it could have been better imo.

We're gonna have different animations for the ghost monster depending on the events that we'll make with her. For the demo we only needed one.

And really? What's wrong with her hair? I mean I know what you mean but come on man, are you really complaining about that? I'm not a pro character artist but I did my best with the hair cause it's really hard making it look good, considering the engine and the poly count budget. And every game's characters hair is made out of planes with alpha textures. That's what I did awell with her hair, hell I even added joints to her hair so I could make them move in a creepy way. Jesus, you don't even see her that close to notice that unless you look at her in the model editor. That was really unnecessary man and it makes me thing if I should even share with the community the three new monsters that I made after we're done with this mod..

[Juras]

Textures aren't the worst for optimization; particle systems and lights are. Rather than sacrifice something that's blatantly obvious, go for one of the other two.

Also, what is with Frunken Productions and ignoring feedback? I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of ostriches afraid of critiques. Just burying their heads in the sand until someone comes by and says "hey, don't worry, you're amazing and perfect and everything's exactly as it should be". Honestly, I feel like Wapez is the most reasonable one on this team - at least he (politely) acknowledges when there's something that can be improved.

How are we ignoring the feedback? Dude, I think I have the right to argue sometimes when I feel that I have to and when I not agree to something, otherwise I would just be a damn tool and do everything that everyone is telling me. I'm pretty sure I didn't ignore any of the critiques here and if I didn't agree with some I explained why I did that and made a compromize aswell. You told me to upgrade the texture, I explained why we couldn't do that. But now you told me that we can sacrifice particles and lights to compensate which is alot more reasonable than just telling me to do something and "knowing" it's possible when you haven't made an exterior this big yourself. See, that's compromize and now I can tell you that we we'll use your tip about compensating by removing some particles.

[Zatchie]

Putting a dirt pile with like 512 pixels 5 million times over is not the same thing as making a custom model for an outside map. Sure we could make the texture resolution higher but it would lag the fuck out, believe me. The dirt piles uses the same texture over and over again. Our mesh is one big ass thing, it can't be higher resolution than 2048 because engine doesn't support it.

There is a lot of factors as to why we didn't make the resolution higher but since you obviously do not have any experience with making custom models what so ever i'm not going to waste my time discussing optimising problems with someone that is not part of this project.

If you want to point out anything else with our mod your free to do that but i suggest staying away from problems that concerns models/characters since we are not going through and changing models and characters that are already finished.

[CarnivorousJelly]

How are we ignoring the feedback? Dude, I think I have the right to argue sometimes when I feel that I have to and when I not agree to something, otherwise I would just be a damn tool and do everything that everyone is telling me. I'm pretty sure I didn't ignore any of the critiques here and if I didn't agree with some I explained why I did that and made a compromise as well. You told me to upgrade the texture, I explained why we couldn't do that. But now you told me that we can sacrifice particles and lights to compensate which is a lot more reasonable than just telling me to do something and "knowing" it's possible when you haven't made an exterior this big yourself. See, that's compromise and now I can tell you that we we'll use your tip about compensating by removing some particles.

You ignore feedback by saying "oh it can't be fixed; we're at the engine's limit" (when that's absolutely not true - I've seen the engine's limit on a low-end computer), "I don't care what ___ says s/he knows; they should prove it to us before we'll listen" or "I know what you mean about ____ but come on, why are you complaining about that?"

Although you're welcome to continue arguing until you're blue in the face, there's absolutely no reason to get defensive when people are trying to help you improve. That's really all that anyone providing feedback is doing. It's not an attack, it's not an insult; it's help. While you don't have to take every bit of feedback, you could at least try it out, see what happens when you follow the feedback. If you don't like the result, then you don't have to keep it. That way, you can respond with "okay, we tried that/thought about it, but it won't work because <insert logical, good reason here>", then the person providing feedback can respond with "here's a suggestion on how you can make it work" and the cycle of people learning and teaching continues as it should.

Responding to a comment doesn't necessarily mean you're addressing the criticism, either. From what I've seen, you deflect the critique completely (examples above), saying "yeah, that's not important", or worse: "we're not going to change those things" which makes it seem like you don't really care about how your mod turns out at all.

[Wapez]

Jesus. This is all just coming down to opinion versus opinion, experience versus experience. Why do every one of you think that we need another lesson in handling criticism? Because you want more stuff to complain on? We've heard your opinions. We've also heard your vision on receiving this so called "feedback" that we're getting. If we don't agree or if we have a different point of view of it, regardless of how stupid and dumb it is, that's what we're going to say. And if that is so incredibly retarded that you have to be straight up rude when continously telling us that, for the love of god, we don't put enough time and effort into anything - then so be it. I just don't see why you're even bothering in the first place. You didn't give one fraction of a shit about this mod until there was something to complain on. Or about our team, for that matter.

[PutraenusAlivius]

Spoiler below!

Hey guys I brought piz-

[Juras]

<...> You really think that we don't know that the terrain is low res? Trust me if we could we would make it look A LOT better but I think you're forgetting here that it's HPL2 we're dealing here with, not UDK and it's really poorly optimized for exterior environments. <...>

Have you heard Robosprog's continuous complaining about HPL2? If he says it's low res and can be fixed without breaking the engine, it can be fixed without breaking the engine (seriously though, he knows more about the engine's limits than most people on here). Upgrade that texture before someone equates your mod to an NES game for the low-res tetures :p

(for those of you who would take offense, that last little bit about NES is a joke)

Lol. Thing is pal, the texture was higher res when we first made that map but it was a slideshow on a mid-end pc and I don't think people would have wanted that so we decided to reduce it for better optimization. I don't care how much he knows about engine limits, but unless he can prove me that I can upgrade that texture by making an exterior this big himself without it being 5 fps then we won't do it

You are aware I made an environment that is larger than your map by a scale of four times easily at minimum (And if I'm not wrong, may be the largest environment ever made in HPL2) without modelling, using over sixteen thousand rocks and dirt piles, right?

If you think that giving your terrain a larger texture resolution has the same performance impact as that, you are just shit at optimizing a level, and there is no two ways about it. That map, even on a mid-low end pc which was what I used to make it, ran at 9-14fps. The real issue was lighting bugs that occurred because the game engine -did not support maps that size- and that was with doing my best to edit the game's settings, which, bear in mind, I have nearly three years experience with now.
You can make the texture resolution better, stop pretending that isn't the case. If your pc's cannot run it, then you're not on a mid-low end pc. You're on a fucking toaster.

I played your mod the same as anyone else's. I'm not the only person to notice it being buggy beyond all hell - I did stick to the paths, I still would randomly get stuck outside the fences. Someone I know actually took a look at that map in the level editor and noticed a ton of gaps where the Player could get stuck/escape.
Yeah, I went back to the hub/castle level. I had no idea there even -was- a further section, which can't be put down to the player's fault considering I was exploring as much as I could. You should study Half Life 2 to learn how to guide the player to the next area using lighting if you're having an issue with that.

I gave you criticism. It was all founded in fact, based on what the player could see, and confirmed by others looking at your maps in the level editor. You don't want to take that? Fine. But everything I gave you is valuable and will help make your mod better. In the end, you are the ones choosing to isolate yourselves from this community. You are the ones choosing to prevent yourselves improving.

Okay so you made the biggest enviroment for HPL2. and it's 9-14 fps on mid pc. Is it the same type of enviroment as ours? Nope. Is it the same amount of detail and lighting as ours requires? From what I can tell, nope. And most improtantly we want our exterior to have playable fps so that people with average pc can enjoy it too. I could have made the textures as high as I want to because my "toaster" PC with my "bread gtx 680" could handle it with an ease, but we thought about other people whith lower end pc's too.

And seriously dude are you blind or something? Jesus man, I don't see why you need to have this kind of douche attidude, are you tryng to prove me something? Cause to me you really seem to have a kind of an ego here. Read my reply again please. I took your criticism clearly and if you failed to see that then I really don't see the point arguing with you and wasting my time here. We agreed clearly with you that our level design was not the best and that there were bugs in the demo AND we showed appriciation for your criticism because we do want to improve and I know that criticism like yours is necessary to do that and I know that it even takes time for YOU to make the criticism and I don't want that to go to waste. But your attidude of "proving" me something about yourself is just not gonna work for me cause I'm not gonna lick ass here just because you have "3 years of expierence", you won't get a free ticket for my respect because of that. I show you respect if you show me respect, that's how it works in the real world for me and the same rules apply here for me too. Don't like it? Well then I guess you're not worth my respect then man

[Reminiscity]

From reading the comments I gathered that you have problems with performance. I downloaded the demo with the intention to play it (and I will) but I was curious on how much custom content there were so I went through a couple of folders to see whats up. I noticed that you use png for textures on a lot of models but I also saw alot of dds extensions. This puzzled me. My guess is that you would increase perfomance greatly if you use only dds because of the mipmap feature dds has. The image file size might increase (I'm not an expert and too lazy to look it up) but because of mipmaps performance would most likely also increase. I'm tired as fak atm but I hope I'm getting across. And I do realise, considering the quality of the models, that you're modeller is most likely fully aware of mipmaps and how they work I'm just throwing it out there just in case. Maybe you could give me a reason for png and teach me something?

Looking forward for this mod! Ha det gött gubbar!

[FlawlessHappiness]

Hi.
Sorry to disturb, I've just been watching all this go down.
Just a quick thing.

This is what I saw you wrote.

but unless he can prove me that I can upgrade that texture by making an exterior this big himself without it being 5 fps then we won't do it

He answered with this.

That map, even on a mid-low end pc which was what I used to make it, ran at 9-14fps.

Then you said:

And seriously dude are you blind or something? Jesus man, I don't see why you need to have this kind of douche attidude, are you tryng to prove me something?

Yep. He was trying to prove something ^_^


I think, the reason you get all the bug, glitch, level design feedback is because we're at the Development section at the moment. People who tend to use the editor quite a lot and know it's cababilities are around here, and that's what they look for. It's hard to play it like a "Normal player".


With that said, I hope the improving of your mod after all the criticism will go great ^_^

[Zatchie]

From reading the comments I gathered that you have problems with performance. I downloaded the demo with the intention to play it (and I will) but I was curious on how much custom content there were so I went through a couple of folders to see whats up. I noticed that you use png for textures on a lot of models but I also saw alot of dds extensions. This puzzled me. My guess is that you would increase perfomance greatly if you use only dds because of the mipmap feature dds has. The image file size might increase (I'm not an expert and too lazy to look it up) but because of mipmaps performance would most likely also increase. I'm tired as fak atm but I hope I'm getting across. And I do realise, considering the quality of the models, that you're modeller is most likely fully aware of mipmaps and how they work I'm just throwing it out there just in case. Maybe you could give me a reason for png and teach me something?

Looking forward for this mod! Ha det gött gubbar!

I am well aware We wanted to ship this demo out so that we could get some criticisms for our upcoming mod. The PNG's are there because I didn't want to fuck things up right before we released the mod. But it's a pain in the ass converting everything because all of the textures are PNG's because I wasn't aware of the issue before. ALL of the PNG's will be removed for the full release. Tack detsamma!