Some flaws...

[SirSafir]

It is the dog, since in the notes the owner of the dogs CLEARLY states, that he found him eating other dogs (Dead dogs in the rooms), Hiding in the walls (The burrows of the wall), and since dogs are known to "Dig Holes" I wouldnt put any doubt it was Frisk.

The amabel thing, was discussed some many times on the forum. We have no idea what caused her to go under the crate. Heck It might just be in fact that amabel turned into a zombie.

As for the green blood, the dog was infected so as the monsters had green blood, i assume he did.

[Elementerials]

I was discussing the swanson/frisk flaws with a friend just before reading this, what a coincidence. And i've got to say they're either lazyness from the devs' part or just design flaws.
The swanson "infected" illusion: i dont know about you but the blood, the slashing and the "death is the final unknown" looked VERY real to me. sorry, but at least coming up with some sort of explaination like she really WAS infected or had gone crazy would have been a better than just leave the player with an actual battle scene when swanson wasnt even hostile in the first place. Or maybe like that other guy said, that she had gone crazy without me knowing and clarence took advantage of that and disguised her as an infected. Even so it's way too cryptic and a good way of making me hate a nice game like this.

Same with the Frisk part, is he supposed to be some sort of ghost that moves at light speed? anyone in their right mind would be having lights on in that corridor to see that there was actually nothing there to hurt them and i sure as hell scratched my head wondering how thin air could damage me like that, and didnt find out how to proceed before reading a walkthrough. It's just another place that could have been better explained by adding some sort of visual encounter other than "you die if you stand in the black zone lol"

really, i dont mean to sound like a spoilt little snob but obvious stuff like this really ruins my experience.

[graykin]

I was discussing the swanson/frisk flaws with a friend just before reading this, what a coincidence. And i've got to say they're either lazyness from the devs' part or just design flaws.
The swanson "infected" illusion: i dont know about you but the blood, the slashing and the "death is the final unknown" looked VERY real to me. sorry, but at least coming up with some sort of explaination like she really WAS infected or had gone crazy would have been a better than just leave the player with an actual battle scene when swanson wasnt even hostile in the first place. Or maybe like that other guy said, that she had gone crazy without me knowing and clarence took advantage of that and disguised her as an infected. Even so it's way too cryptic and a good way of making me hate a nice game like this.

Same with the Frisk part, is he supposed to be some sort of ghost that moves at light speed? anyone in their right mind would be having lights on in that corridor to see that there was actually nothing there to hurt them and i sure as hell scratched my head wondering how thin air could damage me like that, and didnt find out how to proceed before reading a walkthrough. It's just another place that could have been better explained by adding some sort of visual encounter other than "you die if you stand in the black zone lol"

really, i dont mean to sound like a spoilt little snob but obvious stuff like this really ruins my experience.

I do kinda agree with what you said about the Kennel section. I did like the concept of being attacked and killed in the darkness without actually being able to see Frisk himself, but I also agree that the "lightspeed" death probably could've been improved upon. A possible solution for this might've been to trigger a scripted sequence, which involved Philip stopping and looking around, after hearing some scratching noises and a growl, and then the camera shaking and falling as the sound effects imply that something just lunged and roared at you from behind, knocking you down. I don't know if this kind of controlled situation would've been the best solution either, but it's a tiny bit more plausible. Guess it depends how exactly it would've been implemented.

I did think there were a few...laxities with the concept of Amabel "attacking" you...maybe a slightly more sophisticated AI that involved the Tuurngait NOT just walking towards you and trying to "hug" you. For example, if you were to pick up a box and chuck it at Amabel, it would've been nice to have the Tuurngait possibly stop, growl something at you, and hesitantly approach again. Pretty much make it SEEM like the Tuurngait was readying himself for another chance at attacking you (like he's giving you the stare-down before he goes in for the kill), while really, we can rationalize it LATER that it was probably Amabel trying to cautiously restrain you, seeing as how you are overwhelmed with fear at seeing her, and she would probably be trying to show you that she meant you no harm.

I mean...why an "illusion" would be able to kill you doesn't make a whole lot of sense either...but if the game designers didn't make you THINK you were being truly attacked (and incorporate the risk of failure--death), then the shock of--"SURPRISE! IT'S AMABEL!"--probably wouldn't have been as profound.

[Sexbad]

Amabel quite possibly could have been a Tuurngait and Clarence made you hallucinate that she was a real person after you killed her.

[nireth]

Amabel quite possibly could have been a Tuurngait and Clarence made you hallucinate that she was a real person after you killed her.

Story-wise however that would make very little sense I think. Amabel was supposed to tell Philip how to get rid of the virus and obviously Clarance wouldn't exactly approve of that.

Now if Amabel really had been a Tuurngait, I can imagine Philip feeling let down and his trust in her being conveniently shaken, that is him wondering if the cure was really a cure and not something that'd make him give in to the virus completely.

As much as Clarance loves his little japes I doubt he'd give up that kind of insecurity and doubt in Philip's mind just for another one.

As it was, finding out that Clarance had deceived him (whether it was true or not) made Philip all the more angry and all the more determined to get rid of Clarance as fast as possible.

Maybe it's personal, but assuming Clarence ignored all that is much harder for me to believe than picturing a worried (and absent-mindedly not minding the ceiling) Amabel walking steadily towards Philip and trying to calm him down while he's acting weirdly, all for the sake of gameplay.

[Elementerials]

@graykin
Yup, sums up my opinion but formulated a ton better.

- frisk, penumbra already has a ton of scripted sequences embedded into real-time gameplay, for example the worm escape near the end of overture.
It would, at least, be better to be forced not to look and then dying than just having full control and being perfectly able to see that youre being hurt by thin air. Also the idea of a scripted sequence to accomodate a death doesn't sound like a bad idea.

- swanson, yea, some sort of clues, some "infected" noises in the video convo woulda been better than this flawed illusion. I dunno, it's a good aesthetical concept but with the full control you have of the player environment, i just dont think it works out in terms of realism.

[RoyaleBeast]

Ok heres wat really happend with amabel. She was always infected. thats why theres no icon when she video chats. She was trying to lure you in and then the Tuurngait would have you dead. But clarence had a change of heart. Instead of wanting philip dead he came to liking him being alone instead of being "one" with the Tuurngait. Thats why when you first hear him talk he says "why cant I hear there voices" thats also why they kill him in the end. Cause he was seprate from them Tuurngait and had his own body. So in an attempt to make philip want to give up on the cure and hope he made her body look like a human when he killed it. But sadly she kept notes on how to make the cure so clarence just fueled philips anger to cure himself.

Also about the frisk thing. What did you think it was? hmm lets see notes talking about a dog thing that eats other dogs and burrows in the wall. Philip even says "i hear something in the walls" also the notes about Frisk killing the dude at the begining of overture supports it. It burrowed out of the wall and dragged him bac into the shelter.

The amabel thing is THEROY but it is very well supported by most events.
Well the only thing I can think of about it is how she talked normal when infected. Our friend in the computer section around the begining may help us prove the theory. But since we never saw him before he cut his hand off we can only make assuptions.

EDIT1: ALSO the theroy about clarence making her look infected is most likely false (pretty much stated by my theroy) but we've seen wat happens with illisions when they attack u. We get a glass explosion type thing going on. It happens I belevie twice in the game. One with the spider and one with the dog in one section of the kennels. ( NOT FRISK DONT EVEN THINK THATS WHAT I MEAN) plus it happens in the begining of requim as well. But since that game has no affect on BP or Overture it doesnt really support my theroy

[rji]

In the part in the kennels where you die in the darkness - when you turn on your flashlight and look around before you die, you can see that there's absolutely nothing there, though I'll assume it's supposed to be Frisk the dog man. your flashlight and look around before you die, you can see that there's absolutely nothing there, though I'll assume it's supposed to be Frisk the dog man.

Maybe he is using some advanced technology to be invisible, or maybe invisibility is part of the mutation.

Also, in the part where clarence is manipulating your senses to make you kill Swanson, how come the hallucination of a zombie is able to kill you? And why would she be in the exact spot under the box when you let it drop? A human would know better, when I'm turning a wheel which lifts a box with obvious intent.

She probably wasn't a hallucination as there were no food stocks in the room, a human would have starved to death without food. I am assuming the infected live off air and pixie dust that all game creations seem to derive sustenance from except for the irrational need to chew on human flesh as a light snack.

Our friend in the computer section around the begining may help us prove the theory. But since we never saw him before he cut his hand off we can only make assuptions.

Spoiler below!

But he didn't cut off his hand he cut out the human portion of his brain which is why he attacked you.

I was only really disappointed that the infected weren't scary as they were too easy to avoid by running away which led to all kinds of shenanigans involving thrown boxes and such on my part.

[RoyaleBeast]

WTF? How do you know that was his brain? But I doesn't really affect what I said. I'll fix it "Since we never saw him before he cut off his BRAIN we can only theroize."

Happy? :::

[rji]

WTF? How do you know that was his brain? But I doesn't really affect what I said. I'll fix it "Since we never saw him before he cut off his BRAIN we can only theroize."

Happy? :::

Several reasons, first it makes sense that the Tuurngait portion of Eminess would want to remove the human portion, accomplished by removing the portion of the brain that resisted the infection.

Second: Well, like I said it was too easy to avoid the infected, I basically circle-strafed around him getting several good looks while he was chasing me about. He had both hands still attached with an extremely messed up face.

Third: He throws the brain through the window before he crashes through the door, you can get a very close inspection of it after you deal with him.

All in all I thought that was nice and twisted portion of the game, granted not as twisted as Ray Liota eating his own brain in "Hannibal" but still pretty twisted.