Feedback wanted: Some questions on Ending (spoilerish)

[Yuhaney]

Same thing than in the one you let Alexander enter the portal.

[Dyni Crippler]

Same thing than in the one you let Alexander enter the portal.

Oh.
Thought it would be different somehow... thanks!

[iTIMMEH]

I posted my thoughts on the ending in another thread but I'll add them to this thread now that I've found it.

1) When entering the Orb Room (where Alexander is), what where your feelings toward Daniel (ie yourself), Alexander and Agrippa.

I felt toward the end that Daniel was quite an unpleasant character. Like a child he blames Alexander for all the things he's done and seeks revenge for Alexander's manipulation. True, Alexander took advantage of him but Daniel wasn't enthralled - he chose to perform those acts believing that he was working to protect himself and seemed to have become quite consumed by and obsessed with them. His motivation was simply selfish self-preservation and only briefly did he reflect on what he had done but in the end refuses to accept any responsibility.

Given that Daniel villifies Alexander I began wanting to see him destroyed. As the game progressed I began to associate with Alexander's situation. He sees the deeds they commit as necessary to get back home (and to his loved one?). Taking into account that he is from another world one can understand he might not view taking human life in the same way we do, placed in a similar situation we would probably skin a whole bunch of bunnies without batting an eyelid. He seems regretful for manipulating Daniel and doesn't have any malice toward him. None of this of course excuses all the blood on his hands.

I saw Agrippa as a victim but I thinking about it suppose he and Weyer were conducting the same type of experiments? Given the short time he is part of the story I don't have much more of an opinion of him.

2) What was the ending that you got the first time? Was this a choice?

I helped Agrippa reunite with Weyer, this was by choice. Given what he had been subjected to he seemed the least reprehensible character at this point anyway.

3) How did you like the ending?

I liked the ending but felt it could have been more developed. Given the events that had taken place, I felt helping Agrippa was the correct thing to do and that Daniel and Alexander both got what they deserved.

4) Did you get any other endings? If so, which one was your favorite? And what where your motivation for seeing more endings?

I didn't like the ending with Alexander dying and Daniel walking away because of my feelings about the characters and their motivations throughout. I didn't feel that Daniel had the right to walk away with a clear conscience.

[Sebastian]

1) When entering the Orb Room (where Alexander is), what where your feelings toward Daniel (ie yourself), Alexander and Agrippa.

-My feelings towards Daniel shifted around a lot as I progressed through the story, especially towards the end. For a while I felt sympathetic towards Daniel but as I made it closer and closer to the Inner Sanctum and more of the truth behind the whole matter was revealed I began to see him less of a victim. True, Alexander manipulated him to some degree, but to me Daniel is selfish and cowardly, although I am not chastising him for being so, I find it most human honestly. I found his actions, or at least the motivation behind them, not the specific actions themselves, to be human and realistic and his guilt about them only added to it. I quite liked him.

-I'm not too sure how I feel about Alexander. For much of the early game he appeared to be an alright guy from what I could gather, if a little extreme in his actions. The point where I really sympathized with him, though, was finding the diary entry that discussed his lost love. To me this made him very much an antivillian. He wanted to banish the shadow of the orbs and be reunited with his love using it's power. A noble cause although what was needed to do so was ghastly to say the least. I found that he may have felt bad about all that he was doing but he believed it was for the greater good (banishing the shadow and all) making him a little misguided, and after centuries of it he became jaded to it altogether. It wasn't until I was actually in the orb room did he come off as being evil. A change that I didn't care for too much. Overall I didn't like nor dislike him although I did respect him.

-I don't really know what to think of Agrippa. His existence was a sad one and I felt it only right to help him out. He was nice and likable enough. I figured after being the way he was for as long as he was he grew to accept that that was just the way things were and because of that he was able to maintain a relatively cherry disposition. I never questioned whether or not he was a good guy, to me he just appeared as the right guy who was at the wrong place at the wrong time. At the end of it all I like him.


2) What was the ending that you got the first time? Was this a choice?

-My first ending was Agrippa's ending. I knew that he wanted me to wait until the portal was open before doing anything so I waited until it was open and then I tossed him in. It was very much a choice.


3) How did you like the ending?

-I really enjoyed the ending although I was disappointed by how short it was and it didn't really elaborate too much on what became of Daniel which to me is something that is just calling for a sequel or at least an expansion.



4) Did you get any other endings? If so, which one was your favorite? And what where your motivation for seeing more endings?

-I got the two other endings and aside from the Agrippa ending the revenge ending was my favourite. My motivation for seeing them was curiosity. I didn't have an issue figuring out what I was supposed to do at the end, although that was a result unmarked spoilers so I knew what had to be done to get each ending. Still though, some extra commentary from either Alexander or Agrippa would've been nice in those last moments.

[CD Set]

1) When entering the Orb Room (where Alexander is), what where your feelings toward Daniel (ie yourself), Alexander and Agrippa.

The revelations about Daniel actually reminded me a whole lot of Silent Hill 2's storyline, and what happens to James in that game. Won't spoil it for anyone who hasn't played it, but in a way the line between protagonist/villain is somewhat blurred towards the end. That's not to say I completely lost all good will in the character, on the contrary it kind of fleshed out his story and in a way I kind of gained sympathy for him (if not then understanding). I never really sympathized with his complete and utter will to kill Alexander though. I mean, the guy was evil but Daniel's own hands weren't exactly clean, either.

As for Alexander, I didn't really see him as too much of a villain actually. I mean, he tortured who-knows how many victims, but I didn't find that this made him that much more of a bad-guy, probably because of the fact that he had Daniel as an (should we say) assistant. Also, his motivations weren't always entirely obvious (and some aspects of it still remain unanswered), so I'd call him more mysterious than anything else.

Agrippa was a welcome change in that you actually encountered someone... or eh, something that actually talked to you. (Except Alexander). I liked the fact that he was on your side and that he didn't demand you help him.

2) What was the ending that you got the first time? Was this a choice?

I got the "Revenge" ending, where you push the columns down to the ground. To be honest, it wasn't really a choice since I initially intended to help Agrippa through the portal. I suppose it was more of a misunderstanding on my end because I just instinctly tried to stop Alexander any way I could. I guess I thought Agrippa's head would come into play later.

3) How did you like the ending?

I actually liked it, probably the most out of all the endings. Most likely because of the fact that you are shown a longer sequence at the end which gives the story more closure.

4) Did you get any other endings? If so, which one was your favorite? And what where your motivation for seeing more endings?

As I said, the revenge one was my favourite. I felt that the other two (mainly the Agrippa ending) felt a little too... should I say, hollow? I mean, there wasn't really any conclusion on what ultimately happened, nor what happens to Daniel. The bad ending speaks for itself though, I think.

I guess my motivation for seeing all three endings was mainly because the checkpoint was right before, coupled with the fact that I had already done Agrippa's tasks. Also, I'm almost always curious in seeing all the endings I can obtain when playing games. I guess I also wanted to see just what would make the endings differ from one another.

[graykin]

1) When entering the Orb Room (where Alexander is), what where your feelings toward Daniel (ie yourself), Alexander and Agrippa.

Daniel...I don't know what I thought about him. His sense of morality was obviously twisted by Alexander, and for that reason, he deserves some sympathy. That said, he still commited acts of murder on people, and for that reason, he deserves punishment.

Overall, I am ambivalent. He fell sway to his primal instincts, finding himself in the corner with a predator closing him on him. He fought back, in any way he could, like any animal would do. He's a cold-blooded killer, but considering the circumstances, can we blame him? How would any of us react to an intangible predator?

Alexander...I pity him. Fueled with anger at his peers and mentors, he was consumed by all that he had lost seeking the knowledge of the orb. I felt sad for him, actually, and had to remind myself of all the horrible things he had, to both Daniel and to his peers. His charisma made him hard to hate.

Agrippa...I can't, at the moment, remember too much about Agrippa's role in the story. Whether he was a villain as heinous as Alexander or not, I pitied his years trapped in the torture chambers.

2) What was the ending that you got the first time? Was this a choice?

I received the "good" ending. I noticed that the pillars were collapsible, but found myself unable to push them over the first time for some reason. I grabbed them and walked, but they just would not push over. Then, when the portal opened, I remembered Agrippa's words and threw the head into the portal.

3) How did you like the ending?

It felt a little...disappointing, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing or not. It leaves Daniel's fate up in the air (sorta), telling you only that Daniel would be, at least, watched over by Weyer and Agrippa. Thinking of it now, does Daniel deserve this good fortune, after all of the things he did to people? Or does Daniel's amnesia truly grant him such fortune, as he is a truly different person?

4) Did you get any other endings? If so, which one was your favorite? And what where your motivation for seeing more endings?

I did, I reloaded the orb chamber twice and replayed it, getting the different endings each time. I'm not sure which one is my favorite...they are all about on the same level.

My motivation, I confess, was to unlock the whole password for the Super Secret.

[ray]

Here are my thoughts:

1) Daniel: I was horrified by Daniel's torturing and kidnapping. However, I didn't feel personally responsible for them. I guess I considered the amnesia to wipe the slate clean, but to still leave some responsibility to the amnesiac to clean up the messes left by his past self. Incidentally, I felt the same way about this theme when I played Planescape: Torment - responsible, but not guilty.
Alexander: I gathered from the clues in the game that he was from another world in a Lovecraftish cosmology, and trying to return via the gate. I mainly regarded him as evil, but he seemed to sincerely refer to Daniel as a friend. It's easier to explain (and thereby possibly forgive) Daniel's descent into kidnapping and torture than Alexander's, and Daniel didn't keep on doing it for centuries. Despite all this, I had some sympathy for him.
Agrippa: I didn't quite trust Agrippa because of one of Alexander's cylinders where he mentions leaving Daniel for the Shadow as being the same sort of thing that Agrippa did to him. However, this didn't influence my actions toward him. Furthermore, by the time I entered the Orb Room I was already carrying his severed head with me, and had promised to get him through the gate, so I intended to do that.

2) I got the Agrippa ending (throwing his head through the gate). I actually knocked down the first pylon, and worried that this might prevent the gate from opening (and even tried to set it back up again!) Alexander didn't seem too distraught, however, so I waited for the gate to open. I was aware that there were multiple endings, but I didn't try for anything special and just did what seemed natural.

3) It was pretty short and abrupt, but I got the sense that Daniel was safe.

4) I plan to go back and get the others so I can experience them firsthand instead of hearing about them secondhand. After this, I plan to replay with commentary on, so I have a good bit of time left with this game.

[Viking]

1) When entering the Orb Room (where Alexander is), what where your feelings toward Daniel (ie yourself), Alexander and Agrippa.

Daniel I synpathised to begin with, thinking that Alexander had put this curse on him, but as the story progressed and you find out what he did, I started to resent his selfishness to stay alive, no matter the cost. Even fooling himself into believing the prisoners were actually guilty depsite their pleas (this was a turning point in how I felt about Daniel) In the end, freeing his mind to put his resolve into revenge, was maybe his final retribution, but it felt like a cowards way out.

Alexander I didn't feel anything for. Just felt like a generic madman desiring power. The ruse to lure Daniel into using him for power was only slightly covered up. As the player you could tell Daniel was being played the fool partway through the story.

Agrippa was interesting. Initially shocking to look at but I felt sorry towards his imprisonment. Wondered if there was perhaps some other hidden agenda, but after he talked and talked so much, just glad for a friendly ear, I started to realise he was really just wanting release.

2) What was the ending that you got the first time? Was this a choice?

First time was the Bad Ending. Only reason for this was I was trying to wiggle the pillars free instead of just pushing them. I had chosen to NOT help Agrippa on this first occassion just to see what happened.

3) How did you like the ending?

It was what I would expect. Bad guy wins. You die. Fade to black. An expected short and unsatisfactory ending given the circumstances.

4) Did you get any other endings? If so, which one was your favorite? And what where your motivation for seeing more endings?

After that the Revenge ending was done. Did not expect to see Daniel walking out the castle. Fully expected complete death again along with Alexander. Felt like Daniel shouldn't have been allowed to leave (perhaps slamming of the door shut and more of the meat fading in to cover the door shut just as he reaches it would have been 'preferable')

Then got the Agrippa ending. Much nicer altogether. Short, but you don't want too much explained of the unexplainable beyond the portal. Mystery needs to be maintained.

[SpannerMagnet]

For such a great game I was very dissapointed in the endings. They were very dry, boring and short. I would've liked to have heard some more voice acting or witnessed more cutscenes. Not very much plot development at the end. Not as comprehensive as I would've liked but hell that's just my opinion.

[Kim]

1) When entering the Orb Room (where Alexander is), what where your feelings toward Daniel (ie yourself), Alexander and Agrippa.

Daniel
I think the best, short, way I can describe Daniel is: he's an egomanic wuss. He's like one of those people who unquestioningly follow someone for the sole reason that they make them ever so slightly less guilty about whatever they do. To not stop and think about what he's been doing until after he has hunted down and murdered a young girl? Really now?

He also appears to have some strange fears. He's got no problem with that thick iron mist, but he notices a hint of a shadow moving in the distance and he starts freaking out, while standing on top of a pillar where no one can reach him. ;P

In other words, "It rubs the lotion on its skin".

Alexander
Still not quite clear on his persona. He appears to be an exile of this alternate dimension/plane of existence which the gate leads to and sees humans and their vitae as a tool to return.

I don't like him for what he's dragged me into. But I can't really complain about his behavior, he's something of a farmer really. Just making sure the "plants" grows. It's hard to explain it in any more precise way.

Agrippa
I guess I found him to be an interesting contrast to everything else in the castle, but not really much more. I mean, you don't really learn much about him, do you?


Speaking of their personas. It's really nice how you have based most of the stuff on old folk tales and actual living (well, dead now) people. Instead of the usual Abrahamic mythology.

2) What was the ending that you got the first time? Was this a choice?

Well, first of I were very agitated when I entered the room. Mainly due to having spent the last two hours failing to stop the machine. It was pure luck that I, in my rage as I threw and hammered away at the cogs, got a message telling me that the object is too small. Yes, I never thought of putting things into the corner; but celebrations were had when I brought one of those giant styrofoam rocks and finally could progress. \o/

Anyhow, I got my "revenge" by throwing Agrippa into the portal. Not because I had any special attachment to him, rather, I did it out of spite for Alexander and the pain and suffering he had put me through.
So ,yes, it was by my own choice.

3) How did you like the ending?

Definitely my favorite. It felt a bit like when you entered the fountain room for the first time. Soothing and a nice break after everything you've been through. Until you start thinking about the world beyond.

4) Did you get any other endings? If so, which one was your favorite? And what where your motivation for seeing more endings?

I tipped one of the pillars over on my first time through the sequence and were told that the gate would be destroyed. I were curious but I decided to wait instead, just in case. I liked the ending, but it were also pretty stereotypical in ways. Would've liked to know what happened to Agrippa, did he die when the connection were broken? Were he left to rot in the castle? Did Daniel bring him with him?

Then there's the obvious "twiddle your fingers" ending which, as expected, were pretty "meh".

I also would've liked some more information on the real identity of Daniel, if he had one. I can't seem to find any such historic people.

Great game, could've easily paid double the price or set up a monthly charity donation once I find work. =)