Feedback wanted: Some questions on Ending (spoilerish)

[bugmenot]

I forgot to do this...
I won't really answer the questions as everything I could say has been said before.. Both Daniel and Alexander were selfish, in their own ways, and we didn't really know enough about Agrippa.
I got the Agrippa ending first, as I didn't want to "waste" the head that I had spent time getting. Also it wasn't really obvious that simply waiting around would make things advance, so I pushed over a pillar and at that point the portal opened, so I thought that was as a result. Anyway, I did all three endings in the end. I didn't know how many there were, and I just experimented.
One ending I would have liked to be possible but wasn't... Alexander turns out to have been telling the truth after all, and was trying to save Daniel from the shadow. Maybe also returning to wherever in the process.
Also I would have liked more "closure"... Where did the orbs come from? What was Alexander? Where did the portal lead? What was the shadow? Etc, etc.

[Crafter]

1) When entering the Orb Room (where Alexander is), what where your feelings toward Daniel (ie yourself), Alexander and Agrippa.

-It didnt feel that special, i mean. I as Daniel felt like i got to put a stop on whatever that caused this mess and turn to the good side after being manipulated. But there was no threat to this. I was expecting a Gory scene where i finaly get to attack and plunge a knife into alex and cut him up with no censors. Being tottaly into it sense yoouve been threw hell...

I also felt like Aggrippa could be a bit way back in the game. So that you would have to traver threw the castle or bits of it again just to reach and get agrippa. He was a bit too close to the ending making me feel like just another option/Ending to choose from...

2) What was the ending that you got the first time? Was this a choice?

-The first ending i got was Making the pillars fall, and man was that ending satisfying. The second ending with putting agrippas head into the portal was not obviouse at first. Because you had to wait, and there were no real repetition of how you can get this ending. I Did like The second ending, i mean. It felt like you really put a stop to it, and you do deserve so much more. But, The first one felt better in a new way. The second one makes you feel like you did more than just trying to escape from the shadow.

3) How did you like the ending?

-Liked the first, and the second. The third is just... insulting in a way...

4) Did you get any other endings? If so, which one was your favorite? And what where your motivation for seeing more endings?

-Heck! I just reloaded the end game and did another ending. But, i really have no right idea to what ending is the true one. The one with the pillars wich is too easy, and the one with agrippas head wich feels like youve actualy done something, than something mindless.

[Culinus]

1) When entering the Orb Room (where Alexander is), what where your feelings toward Daniel (ie yourself), Alexander and Agrippa.

Daniel - Up until the point were we find out that Daniel has done some pretty nasty things (sure it's hinted a bit here and there, but I mean when we find out for certain in his diaries) I found him to be really dull, dumb and cowardly. When his "fall from grace" is explained I still think he's a dumb coward, but at least now he is a little bit more interesting. In a way his characteristics are fitting for the playable character in a horror game, but I still think I would have liked him a lot more if he was just a little bit more intelligent and philosophical. There's just something about him that makes him feel so... naive.

Alexander - Definitely the most interesting character of the game, then again competition wasn't stiff. I'm having difficulty placing him on the goodness scale. He sure isn't any saint, but his intentions are very unclear, and that's no bad critique. I love the fact that he didn't leave a note in every room explaining his grand master plan to rule the world (or rather escape it...), I find it very good for the story that he is left somewhat in the dark. It feels like his intentions are greater then we could possibly imagine, but it's still probably a good idea to stop him.

Agrippa - Like just about every poster before me has already asked; who the hell is this guy? He has the potential to be a very interesting character, but somehow it's almost like he was a last minute addition to the game. Should I save him? I dunno. Should I leave him here to die? Hell no, not after the time I've spent making this damn elixir. I feel more attachment to the average prisoner / torture victim in the flashbacks.

2) What was the ending that you got the first time? Was this a choice?

First time I ran around the room trying everything, tipping the pillars (without success), touching the fire, jumping on things and running out of ideas. When the portal opened I tried to toss in the head but it said it wasn't ready yet. So I stopped, listened to Alexander do his RP thing and then everything went to hell and I believe I lost the game.

Watched the credits roll and think to myself that this can't be right. I reentered the game and tried it again. It was very clear that you were supposed to be able to tip over the pillars, but I was to incompetent to succeed with it. So I soccer kicked Agrippas head in the portal and got that ending. I later watched a video of someone slightly less incompetent then me to get the final ending.

3) How did you like the ending?

I guess I'd rate them as "okey". Nothing special, kinda flat. Would have been nice with some more depth.

4) Did you get any other endings? If so, which one was your favorite? And what where your motivation for seeing more endings?

I would really rate all three as pretty equal.

[Kessos]

Now that a many of you have completed the game, we would like to take the opportunity and ask some questions related to the Ending and the story as a whole.

Here goes:

1) When entering the Orb Room (where Alexander is), what where your feelings toward Daniel (ie

2) What was the ending that you got the first time? Was this a choice?

3) How did you like the ending?

4) Did you get any other endings? If so, which one was your favorite? And what where your motivation for seeing more endings?

1) When entering the Orb Room (where Alexander is), what where your feelings toward Daniel (ie yourself), Alexander and Agrippa.

Didn't know much about Agrippa the first time, the second time i played i understood everything so much better and that made the story itself better the second time. The first time i didn't even know who Agrippa was. The reason i helped him was because after all I've done (Daniel) it felt right to help someone before facing Alexander. I felt some connection to him since he was the only live person except for me and alexander(if u dont count the gatherers and shadow as living). My feelings toward Daniel grew as the game progressed. I was confused in the beginning, why did i had to kill a man i knew nothing about. In the flashbacks later he sounded like a decent man(when u follow him through the castle), that made it even more unclear why i had to kill him. As i went into the torture chambers and as i remembered what i had done, my feelings for Daniel turned into disgust and hate for him. Later i realized he was a good man and alexander had manipulated him, used his fear for the shadow and death to make him to horrible things. The last letter you read, the one in the inner sanctum really got me. The voice acting was wonderful and that really made me feel sorry for Daniel, having to go through all this, do all these things. And that made it clear, alexander should die.

2) What was the ending that you got the first time? Was this a choice?
I felt a great hatred towards alexander and for what he had done to Daniel, therefor my first ending was the Revenge Ending. I had Agrippas head but i never thought of using it, my only thoughts were that alexander should die, no matter what. I checked the room, i had to interrupt the ritual somehow so i pushed down the pillars. This was very much a choice, i saw no other way out than to destroy the ritual and hoping that alexander would die with it, which he did.

3) How did you like the ending?
Absolutely loved it! The feeling of accomplishment, i did it! Alexander died and Daniel survived. I didn't care much for agrippa at that time since, as i said earlier i didn't know much about him. I really really loved that you showed him walking the paths he had been to earlier without any gatherers or shadow. It really made me feel like "I did it, i saved myself". What he said, about his purgatory and hellfire also made the ending so much better, he didn't only do it of revenge for what alexander had done but also to - at some level - free himself from all sins, which he never really wanted to do. What i would have wanted(not only for this, but for all endings) was what happened to the gatherers and the shadow. Did the gatherers just go back into being mutated beings that take long walks in the forest? And did the shadow enter the portal, or just go back to the tomb the orb came from? It leaves questions, which is up to yourself to answer, can be good and can be bad. One reason this came to mind is that there is no slime after the shadow left, nor any gatherers to stop him on his way out.

4) Did you get any other endings? If so, which one was your favorite? And what where your motivation for seeing more endings?
I played from the cells to experience all endings and so far the revenge end is still the one i like the most. It is the ending that feels right, following my personal feelings towards daniel and alexander. When i played the second time(entire game) i got more connected to Agrippa which made his ending a good one aswell, but it leaves far more questions. Questions that cannot be logically explained. Where is he? He never entered the portal but he still hear Agrippa. Maybe the portal really is a gateway to the realm of death? If so, what is the difference between dying and entering? If Alexander's wife(if im not completely wrong) is dead, why dont he just die? He is talking about home, isn't alexander human? It leaves so many questions unanswered.
So in order, the one i liked most on top:
1: Revenge
2: Good
3: Bad

Overall it was a great game, actually one of the most amazing games i've ever played. Cant wait for your next, really hope it is in the same spirit as amnesia(and not penumbra).
Thanks for giving me this experience!

[flcn27]

1) When entering the Orb Room (where Alexander is), what where your feelings toward Daniel (ie yourself), Alexander and Agrippa.
I felt sorry for Daniel. I didn't hate him for torturing all those people. Plus, I 'was' Daniel, and I wanted to redeem myself. So I was hoping for an ending that would give me that chance.
Agrippa had told me to use his head on the portal so I immediately ran up to it and activated it. I got a message "the portal hasn't opened yet" so I decided to wait, since a lot of things were happening and I thought (and it turned out that I was right) that the portal would open on it's own (no player action required).
I think the message "the portal hasn't opened yet" is very clear but maybe a small hint by Agrippa (telepathic communication?) would've made things more clearer (that you have to wait).
I also felt sorry for Agrippa and fully believed him and wanted to help him. I hated Alexander and just wanted him dead. He was responsible for Daniel's actions.

2) What was the ending that you got the first time? Was this a choice?
The "good/special ending" (helping Agrippa)
Yes Agrippa told me to use his head on the portal and since I believed him, that's what I did. Fortunately I immediately activated the portal and got that message ("the portal hasn't opened yet"), otherwise I might've accidentally activated all the pylons.

3) How did you like the ending?
I liked it a lot. I feel that Daniel has redeemed himself and that his 'soul' may live on in peace in whatever realm Agrippa is in.

4) Did you get any other endings? If so, which one was your favorite? And what where your motivation for seeing more endings?
Not yet, but I've seen them on YouTube. I think I'll play this game again and pick the same ending. I also don't enjoy playing an evil character in RPG's (Fallout 3, Oblivion) so I always go for the good ending, even on my 10+ playthrough :p.

Conclusion:
I liked the ending I got a lot and this is by far one of the best games I've ever played. So thanks for that Frictional .

[Bourlingueur]

1) When entering the Orb Room (where Alexander is), what where your feelings toward Daniel (ie yourself), Alexander and Agrippa.

I can't say I had a whole lot of esteem for Daniel. I wouldn't say I despised him, though. I knew he was trying to redeem himself, but considering what he'd done in that castle, I wasn't sure I really wanted to allow him to live any longer. By letting him die, I was at least granting its victims some kind of revenge, and allowing Alexander to accomplish his goal, which was legitimate in its own twisted way (Alexander wanted to go back to his realm with his lover; Daniel just wanted to survive, even if it meant killing innocents in the process).

Alexander was probably the only character who knew what he was doing, in my opinion. Even Agrippa didn't really have any clear reasons for going through that portal. I couldn't get to like him, though. The methods he used to get what he wanted did not deserve any kind of pity from me.

As for Agrippa, my feelings were ambiguous. He was the only friendly presence in the whole game and it really felt like he wanted to help you. But what were his reasons for going through that portal? Why did his student Weyer cross the portal and deny Alexander passage, even though he was the one who prepared the ritual and had the best reason for going through? In spite of this, he was my favorite character of the three.

2) What was the ending that you got the first time? Was this a choice?

Agrippa was the only character whom I felt deserved to be saved. Therefore I went for Agrippa's ending. I almost knocked all three pillars over because it was taking so long to get that portal opened, but I managed to wait just enough to get it opened and throw Agrippa's head in it.

3) How did you like the ending?

Too short! After all I went through, I would have liked to see a more elaborate ending. It did, however, give me the feeling that I'd done something right and that maybe I could attain redemption after all.

4) Did you get any other endings? If so, which one was your favorite? And what where your motivation for seeing more endings?

I reloaded my saved game to watch all endings, because I was a bit disppointed by the first one I got. The revenge ending was even more disappointing because I felt I'd let Agrippa down and that simply walking away from the castle would not make up for the thing's I'd done. Alexander's ending, however, was definitely my favorite. Hearing your past victims scream while you are slowly killed by the shadow really made you feel that you got what you deserved. The problem of the endings' lenght remains, though: I would have liked to see longer, more elaborate scenes to conclude what I found to be a very interesting and immersive story.

All in all, I really enjoyed playing this game. Now that that's done, I'm planning to buy the Penumbra series in a near future so I can relive the ``Frictional Games`` survival horror experience. :p

[PvtLastClass]

1) When entering the Orb Room (where Alexander is), what where your feelings toward Daniel (ie yourself), Alexander and Agrippa.
Daniel, I sort of split. There have definitely been games where memory loss brought up a certain "rebirth" of someone. I won't spoil it, but a certain star wars game brought you from a sith lord to a defender of the galaxy. Daniel from before the amnesia drink, I really would have condemned. I understand it was coming to the point where only his own death would have truly ended things, but even I wouldn't want to live the rest of my life knowing I was that kind of person.
Daniel AFTER the drink is just "you" - the player. You now have a fresh slate on which you might do some good in the world. I certainly wouldn't condemn Gordon Freeman, the Doom guy, or anyone like that, so I think it's fair for him to walk out at that point.

2) What was the ending that you got the first time? Was this a choice?
I couldn't quite remember what Agrippa asked me to do with his head, and didn't want to wait around in the orb chamber, so I just pushed them over.

3) How did you like the ending?
It was satisfying. It brought a sense of closure to a degree, and sort of acknowledged all that had happened. In a way, I think one more surprise (NICE surprise, not EVIL surprise) or throwback might have been good.

4) Did you get any other endings? If so, which one was your favorite? And what where your motivation for seeing more endings?
I did see the other endings on YouTube. The so-called "best" ending with Agrippa might have felt a bit more rewarding if there were more dialogue, or more to show. Generally, it's felt that the longer ending is the better one.
I couldn't quite see how the ending where Alexander wins is really an "ending" at all - sort of just a nonstandard game over. If the player really felt that Daniel was a heartless bastard, he could have just tossed himself at a Mr. Friendly.

[Clord]

Now that a many of you have completed the game, we would like to take the opportunity and ask some questions related to the Ending and the story as a whole.

Here goes:

1) When entering the Orb Room (where Alexander is), what where your feelings toward Daniel (ie yourself), Alexander and Agrippa.

2) What was the ending that you got the first time? Was this a choice?

3) How did you like the ending?

4) Did you get any other endings? If so, which one was your favorite? And what where your motivation for seeing more endings?

1. Not much anything really. Ending was rushed and there was not even proper animation for Alexander when he spoke, unless it is meant to indicate that Alexander is using telepathy.

2. It was just an objective to get head delivered so I did so.

3. As expected, Daniel is redeemed.

4. Yeah, via loading game etc.

[Renegade_]

1) When entering the Orb Room (where Alexander is), what where your feelings toward Daniel (ie yourself), Alexander and Agrippa.

As the story progressed to the point of the ending, I emotionally disconnected myself from Daniel, and had a faint sense of disdain and loath towards him. For being naive, fickle, and ultimately morally deprave by his own standards.

Yet oddly I felt a strange sense of gravity towards Alexander's character while remaining only mildly conflicted about his motives/morals. It were as if his other-wordly existence defied and surpassed the trivial and petty notions offered up by humanity (in his own terms), and though (as with Daniel) I would likely not have condoned his actions were he human, I truly felt his reasoning - of being beyond good and evil - was compelling and could square it with myself much more so than Daniel's.

This is also in large part due to the superb voice acting on both characters. Daniel's voice acting always trembled with a faint hint of naivety and doubt; while Alexander's was powerful, sure, comforting and explanatory, imbuing him with a sense of authority figure, and reassurance. These attributes resounded in their voice narratives and actions, and is difficult to separate the two.

I felt Agrippa seemed more like an unimportant side-story; though I did enjoy the backstory and myth of Weyer, and found it to be intriguing. However the seeming comical relief Agrippa supplied was not entirely wanted or fitting of the narrative and, combined with his late introduction, I did not feel much connection to or interest of this character (likewise I also assessed his motives to be of a more benign nature).

Much more so than Daniel or Agrippa, I was most fascinated by, and intrigued to see the fate of Alexander.

2) What was the ending that you got the first time? Was this a choice?

From playing several other adventure series before, I feel my decision was not entirely natural. I knew very likely there were going to be a few alternate endings, so I chose the most obvious one first: eliminating the portal without delay. I then chose the opposite of that (Alexander's ending), finally followed by the median between the two (Agrippa's ending).

It was a choice, but only inasmuch as I tend to approach these things in a very calculated manner (i.e. I tend to hoard supplies, explore every room, and rarely wing it or go on gut).

3) How did you like the ending?
4) Did you get any other endings? If so, which one was your favorite? And what where your motivation for seeing more endings?

I enjoyed all the endings, but particularly Alexander's. Daniel's I felt was somewhat expected, though with a sense of something missing: it did not resolve or address his dubious actions during the narrative, and I was hoping to see more of a tragic hero end (perhaps life-long insanity due to intense dissonance, or suicide, or spending the rest of his life as a recluse, marked, scarred, or in some other form of atonement for his actions).

Agrippa's ending was contemplative and mysterious, tying back into the backstory with Weyer. And might have served to be a "good ending", though again for reasons above, I don't feel it was fitting for Daniel in particular, but did offer some resolution as to Agrippa/Weyer.

Finally, Alexander's ending was most intriguing. We never quite glimpse to where he is returned, and are left to ponder the untold majesties of his other-wordly origin. However, on his exit, he notes with sadistic realism what Daniel's fate will be; and I marveled truly at how this was so cooly delivered, without spite or vindictiveness, yet with a hint of surly triumph. The player is left to dwell on Alexander's statements on good and evil, as he states with vivid candor and honesty that Daniel's name and legacy will be "celebrated" eternally; which is summative of the inability to precisely pin Alexander's character as wholly good or evil throughout the entire narrative.

[masochism]

I think its important, when assessing Daniel and Alexander, that you pay as much attention to Alex's notes as you do to other parts of the storyline. Alexander has no reason to lie with these, as they are (meant to be) personal notes. One in particular that I thought was important was the one toward the end which said something along the lines of 'Daniel will not take part in the ceremony, he has changed tonight and can't be trusted'. The tone of the note told me that Alexander saw Daniel as more of a colleague than a pawn. I also got this impression from the bad ending. There is no evidence of Alexander doing to others for no gain to either party, so at worst, he's selfish, but not inherently evil, although he does seem to lose the plot a bit in the good ending.

Daniel is, in my opinion, righteous. He always made the correct choices based on the information that he had at the time.
-If he had not tortured people himself, Alexander would done it instead.
-If he had openly acted against Alexander, then he would have become another victim of the torture.
-If he had killed himself, Alexander would simply recover the orb and continue with what he was doing.
-Daniel had no way of knowing that Alexander could not fix an orb like he could, so he had no reason to destroy the orb.
Am I missing anything? The only part of Daniel that I don't like is that he loses sight of the above, and breaks down because of it.

Agrippa doesn't really feature enough for me to form an opinion on him.
____

I got the good ending the first time, then the bad ending. It actually took me a long time to work out that you could knock over the poles.

I don't like how Alexander seems to spend his final moments in a state of insanity during the good ending. The revenge ending was certainly the most satisfying, and the bad ending was a good insight into Alexander's character. I liked bad/revenge the endings, but I thought the good ending was lacking.