[MASSIVE SPOILER THREAD] The end

[Googolplex]

I finished the game now.
But what is the whole end?

1. You do nothing, Alexander wins and Daniel dies. (is it correct?)
I think that is not the good end.

2. You pushed the columnar and Alexander dies. But what is with daniel?
Daniel said, he have done all right and he go out of the castle into the whole world.
I think that could be a good end.

3. You set the head from Agrippa into the portal.
Alexander said, that Daniel will kill us both.
Has daniel killed Alexander and himself to free the innocent?

[Fomzo]

I finished the game now.
But what is the whole end?

1. You do nothing, Alexander wins and Daniel dies. (is it correct?)
I think that is not the good end.

2. You pushed the columnar and Alexander dies. But what is with daniel?
Daniel said, he have done all right and he go out of the castle into the whole world.
I think that could be a good end.

3. You set the head from Agrippa into the portal.
Alexander said, that Daniel will kill us both.
Has daniel killed Alexander and himself to free the innocent?

I think you should reanalyze Agrippa's story. He is not so "innocent" as you claim. I think no ending is good. It all depends on the point of view. I have gone through many Youtube walkthroughs of Amnesia, and every user named the endings differently. People stated that the "bad" ending was "good" and vice versa. In this game there is no pure good, and pure evil. Just like Alexander said: "Are you so blind, that you see no good in me, or evil in Agrippa?", "Good and evil - such comforting concepts - but hardly applicable."

[thepaleking]

As Fonzo said, there is no "good" or "bad" ending. It all depends on what your feelings are toward Daniel, Alexander, Agrippa.
One can see Alexander as evil, simply because he tortured and killed so many people; another person can see his actions as just, because he was a higher form of life than normal humans, and was trying to return home after being unwillingly trapped on earth.
Daniel is not a "good guy" in the way most game protagonists are, because he did in fact torture and kill people, including a young girl, all in an effort to save his own skin. However he was in way coaxed into doing so by Alexander, who in turn betrayed him by using him as bait for The Shadow.
Even Agrippa, who seems fairly innocent, did at one point, I believe, betray Alexander by taking his place in the portal ritual.

So yeah, the endings are just different, none are better or worse.

[Googolplex]

Hmm...
But the game has a story and the story should tell something about the happening or of the live from Daniel, Alexander and Agrippa.

What evil did Daniel?
He killed a little girl? I have not recognize that in the game (can't understand english so good).
I only understand that Alexander makes a monster from Daniel.

What evil did Alexander?
OK, he tortured people but was it really evil?
What did he good?

And Agrippa? What did he evil?

[Fomzo]

Hmm...
But the game has a story and the story should tell something about the happening or of the live from Daniel, Alexander and Agrippa.

What evil did Daniel?
He killed a little girl? I have not recognize that in the game (can't understand english so good).
I only understand that Alexander makes a monster from Daniel.

What evil did Alexander?
OK, he tortured people but was it really evil?
What did he good?

And Agrippa? What did he evil?

"Letter Regarding the Discovery of an OrbEdit Letter Regarding the Discovery of an Orb:

To my most trusted student and friend Johann Weyer.

The most remarkable thing happened as I was traveling through the Prussian woods this summer. I finally found one of the orbs I have been looking for the last twenty odd years. It is as inexplicable as the Heliodromus described it in the Hortus Conclusus. It was as it was told about, an underground Mithraic temple crowned with the unearthly artifact. The orb was big enough to fill my cupped hands and the texture was smooth and jagged - its color washed while rich. Contrast is not enough to describe its nature. It was an impossibility, an artificial paradox captured within stone.

I was staying in a nearby village called Altstadt, investigating one of the antiquated trails, when I finally found the cavern. I went inside and suddenly I could verify the truth of these enigmatic artifacts - they were real.

As you can understand, this is the most important discovery of my life, but it has also become my greatest fear. As I entered the underground chamber I could feel that I was trespassing. Because of my curiosity I did my best to fight these instincts and fetched the orb from its place. I scrambled out of the chamber and into the woods. I could sense something was following me, it bayed loudly as it closed in. The beast, this guardian of the orb, was relentless in its pursuit.

I made my way to a nearby ravine where I stumbled upon some men fishing in the lake. I tried to warn them as I passed, but fortunately they remained as I continued my escape. When I heard their cry of pain echo through the valley, I felt such a tremendous sense of relief, thinking I would be spared.

Suddenly a blue shimmering light engulfed me and the colors of the forest were washed away before my eyes. I kept running through the bleak surroundings, the trees had turned charcoal black with leaves of cinder, the ground covered in murky water. I pressed on through the drenched land as the glowing ember gave way to the rising wind and rained on me. I could hear pleading screams in the distance and I joined in as pain and fear overtook me. I fell to the ground gasping for air.

This certainly must sound strange, but I had been carried miles away across the Alps to a grassy field outside Genoa. The guardian had taken the orb from me, but still until this day I fear its return. Sometimes I lay awake at night listening for the howling cry I heard in the forest. It has been nearly a decade since that day and I still haven't been able to write about the incident.

The last time we spoke you told me about your interest and ongoing research into the mythic orbs and I realized I owed you the truth about my visit to Altstadt.


Your friend and mentor,

Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa."
Read this, and before you make up your final mind, bear in mind that Agrippa was sort of a partner of Alexander, consumed by greed, pride and constant desire to gain more power.

[CrushedRaiD]

I'm not 100% sure, but in the revenge ending after Daniel has made it out of the castle you can hear rocks being lifted or moved. And in the audio files, Daniel seems to be couching and on the other clip, screaming.. The clips name was something of a danielrevengesumtinsumtin.. So my suggestion is that Daniel imagined it all. Or was it a vision.. Dunno

[Solarn]

Honestly, the people who seem to say that torturing and killing innocent men and women while they scream and beg for help is not evil scare me. Whatever his goal was or whatever he started as, Alexander was obviously evil by the time of the game.
Daniel too. It doesn't matter what his original intention was, he tortured people for Alexander, blindly accepting his word on their guilt. In fact, he continued torturing them even after he found out that they were innocent and only decided it was wrong because killing a little girl was still a shock to him. Alexander may have made him a monster, but he was still a monster in the end.
As for Agrippa, we simply don't have enough to go on. We know that he searched for Orbs and that during one such search, he was chased by the Shadow and felt relief when it killed another man instead of him. That's not evil in itself, that's just human weakness. We also know that he worked with Alexander for a while, which means he must have committed some heinous things, but we don't know the extent of their partnership. We know that when they first opened a gate, he let his friend Weyer through instead of Alexander, but we don't know what influenced his decision. Maybe he felt repulsed by Alexander's methods or maybe his friendship with Weyer was just that strong.

But honestly, if one of them had to go through that gate, I'd choose Agrippa. He might have done some horrible things, but I can't see any good in Alexander at all and Daniel is just a smug twit in his ending ("Oh, the whole thing was my purgatory, I triumphed, it was all about me, me me me") so by process of elimination, Agrippa wins. Also, while Alexander just gloats at Daniel if he goes through the gate, Agrippa seems to want to help him, so he's obviously the better person of the two.

[Fomzo]

Honestly, the people who seem to say that torturing and killing innocent men and women while they scream and beg for help is not evil scare me. Whatever his goal was or whatever he started as, Alexander was obviously evil by the time of the game.
Daniel too. It doesn't matter what his original intention was, he tortured people for Alexander, blindly accepting his word on their guilt. In fact, he continued torturing them even after he found out that they were innocent and only decided it was wrong because killing a little girl was still a shock to him. Alexander may have made him a monster, but he was still a monster in the end.
As for Agrippa, we simply don't have enough to go on. We know that he searched for Orbs and that during one such search, he was chased by the Shadow and felt relief when it killed another man instead of him. That's not evil in itself, that's just human weakness. We also know that he worked with Alexander for a while, which means he must have committed some heinous things, but we don't know the extent of their partnership. We know that when they first opened a gate, he let his friend Weyer through instead of Alexander, but we don't know what influenced his decision. Maybe he felt repulsed by Alexander's methods or maybe his friendship with Weyer was just that strong.

But honestly, if one of them had to go through that gate, I'd choose Agrippa. He might have done some horrible things, but I can't see any good in Alexander at all and Daniel is just a smug twit in his ending ("Oh, the whole thing was my purgatory, I triumphed, it was all about me, me me me") so by process of elimination, Agrippa wins. Also, while Alexander just gloats at Daniel if he goes through the gate, Agrippa seems to want to help him, so he's obviously the better person of the two.

Yes, Agrippa is the "best" person of that three(basing on the little knownledge of him), but I choose the "revenge" ending. Not because of that I thought it was the best way to end the game, I ended the game that way because when I discovered that the pillars could be overthrown, I forgot about Agrippa and did my best to stop Alexander, for i think he is the most "evil" of the three. As for Daniel, he was just psychologically weak and fearsome, and "the best way to manipulate people is to manipulate the darkness of their heart" - or something like that.

[gandalf91]

Honestly, the people who seem to say that torturing and killing innocent men and women while they scream and beg for help is not evil scare me. Whatever his goal was or whatever he started as, Alexander was obviously evil by the time of the game.
Daniel too. It doesn't matter what his original intention was, he tortured people for Alexander, blindly accepting his word on their guilt. In fact, he continued torturing them even after he found out that they were innocent and only decided it was wrong because killing a little girl was still a shock to him. Alexander may have made him a monster, but he was still a monster in the end.

Yeah..I agree with you whole-heartedly. Was Alexander desperate? Yes, but so was Daniel. Neither is a good excuse. And those who quote "Good and evil, such comforting concepts, but hardly applicable," just because Alexander claims to not be evil doesn't prove he is not... Not everyone (especially with shady intentions) can be trusted to be forthcoming on their word. Alexander messed with Daniel's head once...you don't think it possible that he was simply trying to do the same thing again? Trying to do anything to plant a seed of doubt in Daniel's head so that he may not stop Alexander?

[Fomzo]

Honestly, the people who seem to say that torturing and killing innocent men and women while they scream and beg for help is not evil scare me. Whatever his goal was or whatever he started as, Alexander was obviously evil by the time of the game.
Daniel too. It doesn't matter what his original intention was, he tortured people for Alexander, blindly accepting his word on their guilt. In fact, he continued torturing them even after he found out that they were innocent and only decided it was wrong because killing a little girl was still a shock to him. Alexander may have made him a monster, but he was still a monster in the end.

Yeah..I agree with you whole-heartedly. Was Alexander desperate? Yes, but so was Daniel. Neither is a good excuse. And those who quote "Good and evil, such comforting concepts, but hardly applicable," just because Alexander claims to not be evil doesn't prove he is not... Not everyone (especially with shady intentions) can be trusted to be forthcoming on their word. Alexander messed with Daniel's head once...you don't think it possible that he was simply trying to do the same thing again? Trying to do anything to plant a seed of doubt in Daniel's head so that he may not stop Alexander?

By quoting "good and evil..." I didn't want to show that Alexander wasn't evil, but I used it as a game main thought.