To all you modders out there!

[Kreekakon]

Off-Topic: Oh so you're a college student? well that explains most of your posts...

Hmm? How so? Genuinely curious.

[Froge]

time to kill my portfolio

[Wooderson]

Kaye sounds like a bitch to me if I am being 100% honest.

But this is why I quit dreaming now.

And I disagree with the following -


"If your game idea starts with the story it’s not a
game idea. Stories in games are optional."

First part is demoralizing bullshit.




"Avoid: Porn elves.Undressed or under‐dressed women. Unfeasibly large or
gravity defying breasts(on anyone). Knickershots. Brutalized or dehumanized
women with sexual overtones.Homicidal 8‐year old girls(especially in ghost or
AI form). Any and all over‐used, limiting and frankly borderline racist
stereotypes of criminal men from non‐white racial backgrounds including
triads, yakuza,mafia, bloods or crips (especially if they are also rappers),
insurgents and/or terrorists,middle‐class British villains as voiced by Alan
Rickman, working class British villains as voiced by Jason Statham, French
mimes as voiced by no‐one, impoverished Mexican villagers with strong
regional accents and apparent limited access to grooming products, education
or any kind of empowerment."


I like how she's trying to avoid generic typecasting and not being hegemonic, but being realistic, its likely many of those above will be true.

[Statyk]

And I disagree with the following -


"If your game idea starts with the story it’s not a
game idea. Stories in games are optional."

First part is demoralizing bullshit.

She has a good point, in my opinion. She even subtly gives Tetris as a perfect example. A fun game (that I still play from time to time) that has no story whatsoever. A story IS optional. But when it is used, it still should be used properly. I'm not saying it's useless, I just understand where she's coming from.

[Traggey]

What she's saying is that a game should not be built around a story, but the other way around, this is totally true, story IS important, however having a functional game comes first.

[Tiger]

What she's saying is that a game should not be built around a story, but the other way around, this is totally true, story IS important, however having a functional game comes first.

A functional game, yes, but it doesn't have to be an amazing game with topnotch graphics and awesome game mechanics. A game can be built around a story.

[Statyk]

I'm sorry, I can't praise Dear Esther like everyone else. I'd rather read a book. At least then it'd last longer and still give me the same, if not better, experience. I wouldn't consider Dear Esther a game, which is why I don't think that argument defeats the 'gameplay first, story later' argument.

[eliasfrost]

It all boils down to what kind of game you make. 10 years ago, most of those points would apply, hell even 3-4 years ago, But nowadays, it's hard to draw a clear line between a "game" and an "interactive experience", where the latter can be both a traditional game but also an interactive story (like Dear Esther). I think it's very arrogant to call out on story as secondary, I assume she's a dev herself and as a dev, I think you should have at least some kind of insight into what different kinds of games there are out there (and how fundamentally different they really are), and not call one or the other any less a game.

For the record, I dislike Dear Esther, but I appreciate those who can obectively see it for what it is: a game. As an aspiring game developer, I think it's important to have an as open mind as possible.

[Statyk]

Heavy Rain is a better example, because it still had some form of gameplay. I'm not quite sure which was higher in their priority list in production, but when it comes to a vast majority of the industry, I have to agree that gameplay is a bit more important to think about before a story. If I were making a game, I'd want something people could have fun in, with perhaps good replayability. Story IS important nowadays, but I don't think story alone would be a good selling point. You're better off as an author if that's more your style, you know?

[WALP]

What she's saying is that a game should not be built around a story, but the other way around, this is totally true, story IS important, however having a functional game comes first.

.. Dear Esther dude. That kind of is the opposite of what you said and still absolutely fantastic. To an extent, Heavy Rain.

Was the idea behind dear esther not to experiment with how little interaction you could allow yourself to place in a game, and if it could still be called a game?

This alone works as a game idea, while the random dialouge being read for your in dear esther would not be enough to build a game from.

I think a story should be seen as neutral when created, and the media an execution/way of telling that story. The story does not exist in any way without its storytelling method/media.
Which fx could be the writing style in a book, the cutting in a movie or a better and more relevant example,
Walking around an environtment triggering audio
in dear esther.

If you know you want to make a game its best to go for the core gameplay first.
If you make a story it might not suit a game, or feel forced into a game when it could have been just fine or much better as say a book or a movie.

Might be trying to sound smart and well aware here but its not something I have put a lot of research into, this is just my current opinion and it is likely to change in the future.