[SPOILER] Plot Discussion Thread *Spoiler Alert*

[Imagineertwins]

Hello, so one thing that is conflicting for me is the machine it's self. I originally thought that the machine was a automated slaughter house. Much evedince shows this (for example the map which shows the many processes of a slaughter house) I'm seeing many posts saying that the machine was made to "revive his loved ones" or " turn humans to man pigs" but from what I can see of the machine (not including the ending scenes) it is made to butcher pigs. I think this is far scarier then a machine that creates man pigs. The most disturbing example of this is that when you reach the "iron butcher" there are human torsos going through it leading me to think that the machine is now killing people in the same way that it's killing pigs. Basicly, I would like some clarification on the machine itself and how the whole automated pig slaughterer ties into mandus's visions/ desires. Any discussion is appreciated.

[Integria]

Finished the game yesterday, and I figured I'd participate in this thread. I'm going through the included art assets at the moment, out of curiosity, and to see if I missed anything. I'll jot down the few points I've observed so far.

Altar (the Church)
This is the Altar in the Church, as far as I remember. The one with a pig on a cross. The animation for this entity is one where the altar itself slides along tracks on the floor, then rises upwards (presumably along a wall). I don't quite remember this - was this the way the path onwards was revealed after inserting the missing candlestick?

Conversion Chair (final scene)
It seems the object we find the protagonist in at the end is called the Conversion Chair (unless my memory fails me, and it's a different chair). The arms are refered to as spider arms.

Chacmool (temple)
Mostly just another tie-in to the Aztec relation. There's a wikipedia article on it.

Glass Armonica (near the end)
The four objects you have to touch near the end, before progressing to the ending. Once again, I don't know if the name is even relevant - it is presumably just what inspired their shape.

Iron Lung (near the end as well)
The object the previously discussed person is lying in near the end. It is refered to as an Iron Lung. Once again, this might just be what inspired the object, rather than refering to any function of it.

[LarryV]

Finally caught up and man, a lot for me to think about.

[cryptoshadow]

Interestingly the machine seems to be integrated with two orbs presumably found in Mexico during Oswald's ill fated expedition.

The hell is this crap? Why does informational wiki contains some tidbits of personal interpretation. We never seen a single Orb in the whole game. At all.

And at the end these weren't orbs at all.

Are we sure there aren't orbs in the temple at the end? Several people thought these were the twin's hearts but take a closer look at those pics (full size recommended if you want to see something):

Spoiler below!

These two round objects are way bigger than a heart (it's almost as big as the kid's head). Besides, there's that blue light that looks very similar to the one we could see in Daniel's flashback when he was stuck inside the tomb with the orb in Algeria...

Just for comparison, here's a screenshot from the scene where Edwin and Enoch tear their heart from their chest in the game:

Spoiler below!

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And what about the intro of the game? It looks like it's the same the room in the temple at the end.

The only difference between the intro and the final scene is that the twins are not present (same goes for the hearts/orbs/whatever above them), the lighting is red and we can hear the machine say "Daddy, please, don't kill me".

What's the meaning of all this?

Spoiler below!

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Altar (the Church)
This is the Altar in the Church, as far as I remember. The one with a pig on a cross. The animation for this entity is one where the altar itself slides along tracks on the floor, then rises upwards (presumably along a wall). I don't quite remember this - was this the way the path onwards was revealed after inserting the missing candlestick?

The path was revealed when you pushed the lever near the furnace in the room next to the altar.

[LarryV]

Also, that Amnesia wiki as putting the Machine as one half of Mandus sounds interesting. And... I think i works.

I'm going to replay it today and see what I missed and come in with fresh (somewhat) eyes on the stories

[Kein]

Are we sure there aren't orbs in the temple at the end? Several people thought these were the twin's hearts but take a closer look at those pics (full size recommended if you want to see something):

Nope, they still don't look like Orbs from Amnesia. First, the Orb is less smaller, second - it is perfectly round. As you mentioned, many people thought it was hearts - because they have similar shape, but definitely not round one.

But there is more! If we assume that all references to Egg were masked references to Orb then we know that there was only ONE egg. Language file contains only single mention of the each of the words: "eggs" (level title - Nest of Eggs) and "orbs" ( <Entry Name="Mansion02_03">In Lily's Honour, a Banquet[br][br]Four glassy orbs fixed upon a point in heaven. Wipe down your trousers, man, there is blood in this sweat and it is most unseemly.</Entry>).

And if we take into account unused dialog for custom endings - one of the children says "Smash it" while referring to Orb (the vo file named as orbhit), not "Smash them". This implies that even in the original, first version of the story there was only one Orb (that played bigger role than in final version).

[cryptoshadow]

Interesting theory. Then, if those blue objects aren't hearts or Orbs (even fragments of a single one), what are they?

[kojack]

Are we sure there aren't orbs in the temple at the end? Several people thought these were the twin's hearts but take a closer look at those pics (full size recommended if you want to see something):

Nope, they still don't look like Orbs from Amnesia. First, the Orb is less smaller, second - it is perfectly round. As you mentioned, many people thought it was hearts - because they have similar shape, but definitely not round one.

The temple map does contain a reference to orb_room.DAE and orb.ent (which uses orb.dae). Only one orb.ent is placed in the scene. I haven't actually seen them when playing, but they are in the map file.
There's also models for the orb in 6 stages of being shattered, but those aren't referenced in any of the maps or scripts. (Part of the unused alternate endings)

Are we sure there aren't orbs in the temple at the end? Several people thought these were the twin's hearts but take a closer look at those pics (full size recommended if you want to see something):

There are two objects in the map called "child_heart_1" and "child_heart_2", those would be the glowing things.

[Alardem]

To paraphrase the original pitch for A Machine For Pigs: "I live in an egg, laid by a pig. Everybody comes to me for suckles."

Has anyone tried to just lay there at the end and see if anything else happened? I wonder if the excision of the orb-destruction scene was what Frictional removed from the ending.

Also, I personally think the 'Stone Egg' either contains Mandus' dark half - or maybe an inhuman, primordial force waiting for a sacrifice of blood. What if Mandus saved nothing? All we know is that he and the Machine die as one being, that the Man-Pigs start singing, the 'city turning over in its sleep', and a church bell ringing out. There's nothing there to indicate whether London was saved, because Mandus is both buried and dead.

What if the Machine required Mandus himself as a sacrifice in order to fulfill its purpose of bringing about the new century? Unused sound files have the Machine begging its father for its 'life', but in the final product its rant about the twentieth century ends with him saying "they will make pigs of you all, and they will bury their snouts into your ribs and they will eat your hearts."

In short, what if Mandus' sacrifice is what brings about the future the Machine saw/the twentieth century as we know it? Or, considering that Amnesia is an alternate history, what if it brought about something far worse?

[Integria]

A few more tid-bits of information, simply gathering it up here.

Why did Mandus supposedly kill his children?

<Entry Name="vo_temple_trigger_machine_03_machine_02">I did not kill your children, Mandus. You sacrificed them on the temple steps knowing what the coming century would do to them.</Entry>
<Entry Name="vo_temple_trigger_machine_03_machine_02_1">Your sons will drown, lungs full of mud and shrapnel, on the banks of the Somme. You wanted to save them from the horror to come.</Entry>

Mandus killed off his own children to spare them the atrocities that would follow - they would die during World War I.

The power source

<Entry Name="Note_CellarPumpRoom_Name">September 11th 1899</Entry>
<Entry Name="Note_CellarPumpRoom_Text">Our power source provides surplus energy for our needs, and the architect has assured me that the excess is being stored safely deep within the factory. I have been as far as the entrance to the storage chambers, but it is clearly hazardous to proceed further. Our workers enter and work there, but they do not last long. We dispose of the bodies beneath the chapel, in an old medieval plague pit, which seems appropriate. They are covered with burns and strange growths upon the skin that blister and split when they are moved. The smell is quite overwhelming.[br][br]All we require for the new power source is a steady supply of clean water, which we are diverting from the sewers. Our entire enterprise is thus built upon human waste.[br][br]The power source generates substantial heat, which rises through the chimney complex and warms the tunnels for the workers. Provided there is not too much blood in their excrement, it functions as a perfect closed system.</Entry>

Might just be me, but I'm pretty sure this is a reference to a nuclear power source - a technology unavailable at the time.


Are the kids merely imagined?

<Entry Name="Note_EnginePipes_Name">if you are reading this</Entry>
<Entry Name="Note_EnginePipes_Text">then you have got as far as i did so read quick and you may get further. minnie, she told us before they took her down, theres a secret way through. she told us she met two boys in the pipe, no older than us, but dressed like little gents proper they were, but already there in the pipes they was, like they'd always been there. they told her to follow and then they could get all the children free, they knew the way to a secret door that would get us out. she was going to follow them, but then they sounded the steam bell, so she had to get out or she'd have been boiled up like the others. of the two boys, she never saw them again, but i heard others have seen them too and they've said the same thing.[br][br]minnie said look for the signs the boys have left. they said they'll always be here, waiting to help us all home.</Entry>

Two young gents, proper dressed, spotted by someone who was in the pipes - presumably an orphan. Does this imply that others have seen the two children, whom I presume are your sons.

Did the children die in Mexico? Where are they burried?

<Entry Name="Note_PiglineFour_Name">December 2nd 1899</Entry>
<Entry Name="Note_PiglineFour_Text">Walking away from those temples, that small pile of stones under the rhododendrons. The skulls of innocence under the loose clod. Headless ribcages in the cool stone behind the altars, three thousand miles apart. I trace back my life to this instance, rain channels eroded in ancient stone. The toxins are already in this damp, this falling water.[br][br]I hack and retch and vomit into the sink and grasp the bowl with both hands and stare. There in the plughole, as clear as day, a toy spine, clockwork and intricate, like a child's spine, but clockwork. How could that be? How could a child's spine be made like clockwork? I washed it carefully and placed it on the mantelpiece, by the egg I laid myself, under the garden where the childrens' skulls are buried. I call it my Mexico.</Entry>

I don't generally know what to make of it all. Most of the other entries point to the children dying at the temple. Their skulls undeniably seem to be burried in the yard. Is it possible that they died in Mexico, and he brought only the skulls back home with him? Keep in mind that he was severely injured, and likely couldn't carry much with him. The main confusion for me is that the distance from London to Mexico is a fair bit greater than '3000 miles'.