*Spoilers* The Torture Victims

**lizardfolk** · 09-17-2010, 08:23 PM

As I remembered from the game there were 4 torture victims where you get the orbs. Not much was really revealed about them as far as I remember. IDK, it's been a while since I played the game and I just stopped after the murderer. So I'm trying to remember but if you guys can clarify a few things I would appreciate it.

Now there were 4 victims that Daniel tortured to death right? They were all accused of committing crimes: Kidnap, Arson, Rape, and Murder

Are these just random people that the baron just took? Or were these actual criminals? Also, I'm assuming that the baron has tortured plenty as to harvest the vitae. But these are the four that Daniel personally tortured to death?

Just would like some clarification thanks

**Kein** · 09-18-2010, 08:45 PM

You forgot the victim for ritual in Choir Entrance.

**mansarde** · 09-18-2010, 10:10 PM

We don't know if Daniel tortured only 4 people. There could've been plenty more we just didn't get to hear from.
I mean, would you want to hear 100 audio flashbacks, just to be sure he tortured 100 people?
And I don't think it'd be likely you could find a note or diary page mentioning the numbers, since I don't believe Daniel would keep book about the numbers. Big Grin

But if you ask me then yes, I think there were plenty more he tortured.
Maybe he helped a little bit with the "vitae extraction". Tongue

**ChrisSmith** · 09-20-2010, 02:39 AM

I think it's heavily implied that most, if not all of the people being tortured are innocent.

**Sexbad** · 09-20-2010, 03:33 AM

The arsonist definitely did set a man on fire, but I don't actually know if he did it on purpose he claimed he didn't. There were six distinct torture chambers each with description, so that's six, plus two at the choir entrance, plus I think a completely innocent family of four (including children). Those are the ones who are mentioned distinctly. Probably a few more.

**Hannibal** · 09-27-2010, 02:53 AM

(09-17-2010, 08:23 PM)lizardfolk Wrote: Are these just random people that the baron just took? Or were these actual criminals?

In a flashback, a man Daniel was about to torture claimed the murder was an accident, and in another we hear Daniel complain that they usually say it was an accident or it wasn't their fault--so at least some of those he tortured were involved in a crime. Whether they were convicted is unknown.

On the other hand, we know his victims at the dairy farm were totally innocent. That's what broke him.

In-between, we can't be too certain. Daniel wouldn't knowingly kill an innocent, but he also wasn't asking so many questions, and Alexander did collect innocents and was capable of lying.

(09-17-2010, 08:23 PM)lizardfolk Wrote: But these are the four that Daniel personally tortured to death?

I strongly suspect there were more. First he's hesitant, then he goes through an improving stage where he's concerned the wheel will kill too quickly, and finally he's got it down to a thought-free science: "Paint & cut, paint & cut...". In my estimation that progression would take more than four kills.

**VirtualAlex** · 10-05-2010, 07:06 PM

I agree with the above. The game's narrative follows the "evolution" of Daniels perception of the tortures. First he can't believe what he is doing, and questions if it's right, then he has this phase where he talks about how the people have no dignity and can't die without begging and whining (losing his humanity) and then the "Paint the lines, cut the lines, draw the blood" chant which really makes it seem like a routine. Definitely many more than 6 victims.

Actually I bet it would be pretty easy to tell if the dates on all the notes that mention killing/torture are looked at. If they are years apart then it's safe to say he tortures very many. If it's only like 2-3 weeks than maybe it was only 6ish?

**superluser** · 10-06-2010, 06:49 AM

(09-18-2010, 10:10 PM)mansarde Wrote: We don't know if Daniel tortured only 4 people. There could've been plenty more we just didn't get to hear from.
I mean, would you want to hear 100 audio flashbacks, just to be sure he tortured 100 people?

I'm pretty sure he didn't kill 100 people unless there were some sort of secret breeding program we never heard about. 100 people don't just vanish. People would start asking questions, and then you'd get a major army marching on Castle Brennenberg.

(09-27-2010, 02:53 AM)Hannibal Wrote: Daniel wouldn't knowingly kill an innocent

What are you basing that opinion on? Daniel could have been a sociopath.

(09-20-2010, 03:33 AM)Lee Wrote: The arsonist definitely did set a man on fire

Says who?

Go into lang/eng/voices/flashbacks . Now play CH02L23_PrisonerDragged_07.ogg and then CH02L15_PrisonerCaptured_04.ogg . (for context, you might want to play CH02L23_PrisonerDragged_08.ogg as well)

The building was burning when he went in. That means that he might not have been responsible for the fire--he might even have been trying to rescue someone from the fire. Either he was lying to appease his torturers or (the more horrific possibility) his perception was distorted by the torture or the amnesia and he really does think he killed someone by walking into a burning building. I'm not sure if I caught that the first time, either.

Edit: Oh, wait. He said `why did he have to go in there' not `I.' I still prefer my alternate character interpretation.

**Kein** · 10-06-2010, 01:19 PM

Quote:What are you basing that opinion on? Daniel could have been a sociopath.

In his diary Daniel especially states the fact how disgusting it is for him to kill an innocent. I don't remember, tho, if he did that after all. Afair, that girl was the reason of his amnesia.

**mansarde** · 10-06-2010, 03:56 PM

(10-06-2010, 06:49 AM)superluser Wrote: I'm pretty sure he didn't kill 100 people unless there were some sort of secret breeding program we never heard about. 100 people don't just vanish. People would start asking questions, and then you'd get a major army marching on Castle Brennenberg.

Daniel "might" not have tortured that many people, but Alexander has AT LEAST tortured that many people, since he needed them to stay alive for centuries.