Sexuality

[Danny Boy]

I hold a neutrality on homosexuality. I wouldn't advocate for it, neither look down on it. I accept it.

On the matter of being a choice vs. Something you are born with I believe it's something you are born with (genetically or programmed to during your upbringing). I assume homosexuals feel love or attraction in the same way as heterosexuals. Love and attraction isn't something you derive from a logical conclusion, ergo you cannot choose to love someone.

its not genetic. its hormonal

[eliasfrost]

To what degree is homosexuality allowed?

100% just as much as heterosexuality.

[Bridge]

To what degree is homosexuality allowed?

100% just as much as heterosexuality.

Well I would say that heterosexuality is 0% as much allowed as homosexuality because neither needs to be "allowed" (but that's neither here nor there).

[eliasfrost]

To what degree is homosexuality allowed?

100% just as much as heterosexuality.

Well I would say that heterosexuality is 0% as much allowed as homosexuality because neither needs to be "allowed" (but that's neither here nor there).

I agree totally, things like this should be obvious and not even a topic for debate.

[Your Computer]

Oh, you play that card. Sorry I won't argue with you then ignorant one, since you think we are equal to pedophiles.

I find this statement ironic in its own right, as it calls me ignorant yet proceeds to leave me in "ignorance" by use of ad hominem rather than attempting to support their own assertion. Do you not recall that homosexuality used to be a declared mental disorder? Yet, it is no longer declared that because people asserted "gay rights" and "love." The same line of reasoning can be used for other forms of sexuality, but i'm "the ignorant one" for realising this?

Choosing to label something as something else is not the same as being the label. Or are you arguing that it should be ok to be a homosexual as long as the homosexuals choose to identify themselves as heterosexuals?

I realise choosing the label is not the same as being the label, hence my previous statement and why i claimed A and B were in contradiction. As for your question: No, i don't believe lying is the right thing to do.

It's the other way around, "growing up to be a homosexual" follows from "not their own choice".

True, but that wasn't your original statement.

Why doesn't my analogy have any bearing?

Your correlation between being left-handed and being gay is being born with it. Even though being "left-handed" and being "right-handed" also deals with effort put towards the "skill," for being either does not imply lack of the other (and therefore neither would homosexuality imply the lack of heterosexuality), but we know use of either can be shown through science, specifically anatomy (a form of science that has no reason to support homosexuality); homosexuality cannot. If you think it can or if you think you have undeniable scientific evidence for homosexuality, you may post it. Stating that you are not a scientist and therefore seek not to speculate on the matter would be irrelevant, since you would be directing me to, at least presumably, a scientist.

Oh, I understand, you like to nitpick. I haven't actually modified my arguments at all, I've just tried to clarify them. You, however, seem to get hung up on details. The reason I mentioned "people having sex in public" and "people trespassing on private property" is because those are two acts that are illegal, even when heterosexual people do them.

So, do you think that two homosexuals kissing in public are hurting people? Please explain.

I am not one who likes to feign ignorance for the sake of providing the benefit of the doubt. For this reason i put a lot of thought into what i say. If someone can find something (logically) wrong with my statement, i would then be better off and better prepared for any future statements i decide to make. If you find the fact that i would prefer for you to provide better statements either annoying or a form of destructive criticism, i would say don't expect me to stop.

While i can derive that something being in a person's business may involve someone getting hurt, it is not limited to that. I also do not believe pain itself defines when something is morally wrong. Having said that, unless perhaps they're doing some really kinky kissing, i wouldn't say kissing causes pain.

Like I said, I haven't modified anything. But hey, why do you think homosexuality should be forbidden? I'd honestly like to know.

Two reasons: I believe in the absolute authority which declares it as such, and (therefore) it contradicts what i would coin "the law of most compatibility." This "law" i do not limit to just the physical; i also include relational, which applies likewise to heterosexuals and any other forms of sexuality. I believe following such a rationale would create better relationships overall, for things like lust would be a deviation from such a "law."

If you don't believe in God, that is not an issue i would have to address, for without an absolute authority, "right" and "wrong" are equals. In which case, you shouldn't care whether i am for or against homosexuality.

Oh, I see, do you want me to give you a list of what activities of homosexuals that I condone of? What I'm trying to get across to you is that homosexuality should be judged by the same criteria as heterosexuality. I'm sorry that I didn't spell this out from the start.

If providing a list means a more sound argument, then i probably do, but you have already stated that homosexuality should be judged under the same criteria as heterosexuality. However, heterosexuals do not engage in homosexual acts except when they want to be homosexuals.

[Statyk]

It amazes me that such a touchy subject has come this far without a death threat or a ban, or even a close of the thread. I can honestly appreciate a good argument, so long as it doesn't get out of control. The moment debaters swerve off the road, I stop the car and leave. If you fellas and ladies don't mind me applying my input, I would like to add it.

Let's start from the basics. I'm atheist, so there is no bias. I am going off of what I personally believe and my own conclusions that I have developed over time on my own ideas. No one has influenced the way I think because I think for myself. I do not need researched material and gospel to tell me what I should believe.

For starters, I believe homosexuality is a personal choice, I can't bring myself to believe you are BORN homosexual. This does not necessarily mean I disagree with homosexuality. I am merely saying it is something you learn. I was not born thinking I will later have sexual relations with a woman. It was brought up around me, such as having a mother and father, not having two mothers or two fathers. Had it been that way, perhaps I would have grown up homosexual. Now, before you say, "but homosexuals can be born into a straight family". What was it around them that made them think of dating a man? Or a woman dating a woman? They had to have seen or heard something throughout their life that influenced it. Perhaps a friend of the same sex has always been there for them in rough situations and the bond grows larger than "friends", understand? It's the classic battle between Nature vs Nurture. And throughout what I have seen as I have lived on this planet, the way kids are raised, I believe NURTURE plays the more dominant role.

As for the public display. If homosexuals want to hold hands while they walk, I'm not going to give it any more regard than if a straight couple were holding hands. If that's what the person wants, I'm not going to tell them it is wrong. If they were to kiss, yeah, it's going to make me a little awkward, but again, I would show it no more regard. It's their choice. What if someone had told you creating mods and games was wrong? You would keep doing it anyway, would you not?

In the end, I believe if there were no religion on this world, there would be less wars, less disapproval, and people would be able to come together better. Homosexuals should be allowed to do as they please, so long as they don't try anything funny with me. (I may be straight and accepting, but I am not comfortable with homosexual contact on my person. I get angry when a friend smacks my rear as though it were a joke or "encouragement") Keep sexual activities private, don't FLAUNT the homosexuality. Homosexuality is supposed to be a gender-love preference, not a fashion statement. I have a few friends who are gay and I enjoy talking to them. They are just as human as everyone else and it would be nice if all homophobes would kindly get their heads out of their asses and see that the world is changing and they should learn to accept it.

Is Justin Bieber going away any day soon? No. I have to accept that he will be around for awhile.

[nemesis567]

I hold a neutrality on homosexuality. I wouldn't advocate for it, neither look down on it. I accept it.



On the matter of being a choice vs. Something you are born with I believe it's something you are born with (genetically or programmed to during your upbringing). I assume homosexuals feel love or attraction in the same way as heterosexuals. Love and attraction isn't something you derive from a logical conclusion, ergo you cannot choose to love someone.

its not genetic. its hormonal

Then it's genetic.

[Kman]

I hold a neutrality on homosexuality. I wouldn't advocate for it, neither look down on it. I accept it.



On the matter of being a choice vs. Something you are born with I believe it's something you are born with (genetically or programmed to during your upbringing). I assume homosexuals feel love or attraction in the same way as heterosexuals. Love and attraction isn't something you derive from a logical conclusion, ergo you cannot choose to love someone.

its not genetic. its hormonal

Then it's genetic.

ezwin

[Danny Boy]

I hold a neutrality on homosexuality. I wouldn't advocate for it, neither look down on it. I accept it.



On the matter of being a choice vs. Something you are born with I believe it's something you are born with (genetically or programmed to during your upbringing). I assume homosexuals feel love or attraction in the same way as heterosexuals. Love and attraction isn't something you derive from a logical conclusion, ergo you cannot choose to love someone.

its not genetic. its hormonal

Then it's genetic.

Hmm no? do you even know the difference between hormones and genes? Let me give you an example. there are two twin brothers (therefore same DNA) one of them is straight and the other is gay. its not because one of them denies being gay. but its because when they where in the womb, one of them didn't received enough testosterone into the brain. therefore his brain didn't developed as a men's brain but yes as a women's brain. so literally our sexuality isn't genetic, but we are born whit it nonetheless.

---

I agree whit 99% of what you said... but...

"For starters, I believe homosexuality is a personal choice, I can't bring myself to believe you are BORN homosexual"

I don't understand what made people come to this conclusion over and over again wend most of them don't even know what makes people "gay". Someone doesn't come up whit the idea of "hey I wanna be gay!" some gay people don't want to be gay! hell they are insulted by a huge amount of people! some in their dennial go to those "straight camps" or whatever they are called. being gay IS NOT something you CHOOSE! did you choose to be straight? no! i am straight and its not because i want to! its hormonal! it haves to do whit the development of the baby in the mother's womb! its not a decision nor it is genetic! the sooner people understand this the better!

[Statyk]

I don't understand what made people come to this conclusion over and over again wend most of them don't even know what makes people "gay". Someone doesn't come up whit the idea of "hey I wanna be gay!" some gay people don't want to be gay! hell they are insulted by a huge amount of people! some in their dennial go to those "straight camps" or whatever they are called. being gay IS NOT something you CHOOSE! did you choose to be straight? no! i am straight and its not because i want to! its hormonal! it haves to do whit the development of the baby in the mother's womb! its not a decision nor it is genetic! the sooner people understand this the better!

Now, now, Danarogon, like I said, I can appreciate an argument, so long as it is under control. Let's keep on the road correctly, please? What you said raises a valuable point and I can agree to the hormonal thing. What I can say is that since I am not gay, I can not see through the eyes of one. I may be wrong, but it was my interpretation of it, wrong or not. Don't exclaim and get angered when someone thinks differently than you. You can derail a thread easily by doing so.