Sexuality

[Sexbad]

I don't understand what made people come to this conclusion over and over again wend most of them don't even know what makes people "gay". Someone doesn't come up whit the idea of "hey I wanna be gay!" some gay people don't want to be gay! hell they are insulted by a huge amount of people! some in their dennial go to those "straight camps" or whatever they are called. being gay IS NOT something you CHOOSE! did you choose to be straight? no! i am straight and its not because i want to! its hormonal! it haves to do whit the development of the baby in the mother's womb! its not a decision nor it is genetic! the sooner people understand this the better!

Now, now, Danarogon, like I said, I can appreciate an argument, so long as it is under control. Let's keep on the road correctly, please? What you said raises a valuable point and I can agree to the hormonal thing. What I can say is that since I am not gay, I can not see through the eyes of one. I may be wrong, but it was my interpretation of it, wrong or not. Don't exclaim and get angered when someone thinks differently than you. You can derail a thread easily by doing so.

Even though you aren't gay, there are some things that I think you'll be able to understand, though. I am about to argue about a point that you may or may not have brought up earlier. It is almost midnight and I just completed an enduring round of cardio, so I don't really feel like checking. Nevertheless, this should be useful.

You mentioned how sexuality is likely a learned trait, because we develop sexual feelings over time; we aren't born willing to fuck. But regardless of sexual preference, this happens because we have a natural development system programmed to release all sorts of hormones very gradually as we near certain ages or other milestones. Teenagers and young adults tend to pay more attention to sex, and thus their sexual orientation, because they're finally getting introduced to it wholesale.

It took me till eleven or twelve years of age to actually realize that I like boys, but the kicker is that, now that my mind is clear enough to remember, my brain had hinted that at me for quite some time before then. I had little guy crushes and, well, a few special experiences that were pretty kinky in retrospect. I just thought that I liked girls because I was told to like girls, and nothing in my body screamed contrariwise yet.

Similarly, you probably grew into really liking girls*, as did most other people, not because it was a gradual process, but because you just weren't all that capable of really liking girls until you reached puberty. Before puberty, children tend to have crushes based on just barely sexual feelings and whatever they are told is normal (most likely, heterosexuality).
* or liking boys if you are a girl

Also, if sexuality was a learned trait, I would probably have been able to turn myself straight by now. As soon as I had figured out that I was gay, I got scared shitless, and I did everything I could to guilt trip myself into acting like I was attracted to girls for a few years. I was more or less told that I liked girls as soon as I met girls my age, too. I can't really think of an outside source that influenced me to like boys. I just liked boys and figured that there's nothing I could do (or really had to do) to change that.

Of course, I'm just speaking for the majority of homosexuals. Sexuality (and gender identity while we're at it) is unique for just about everybody. It's not Mendel's tall and short pea plants, I tell ya hwhat. Most everybody is born with an unalterable sexual makeup, but I wouldn't be surprised if one or two people could actually choose, or maybe someone who was bisexual grew to focus on one gender, or something like that. The possibilities are limitless!

[palistov]

Until someone's sexual preference manifests itself as a virus which infects me and causes me to die a slow and painful death, it is of no concern to me.

[Statyk]

Spoiler below!

Even though you aren't gay, there are some things that I think you'll be able to understand, though. I am about to argue about a point that you may or may not have brought up earlier. It is almost midnight and I just completed an enduring round of cardio, so I don't really feel like checking. Nevertheless, this should be useful.

You mentioned how sexuality is likely a learned trait, because we develop sexual feelings over time; we aren't born willing to fuck. But regardless of sexual preference, this happens because we have a natural development system programmed to release all sorts of hormones very gradually as we near certain ages or other milestones. Teenagers and young adults tend to pay more attention to sex, and thus their sexual orientation, because they're finally getting introduced to it wholesale.

It took me till eleven or twelve years of age to actually realize that I like boys, but the kicker is that, now that my mind is clear enough to remember, my brain had hinted that at me for quite some time before then. I had little guy crushes and, well, a few special experiences that were pretty kinky in retrospect. I just thought that I liked girls because I was told to like girls, and nothing in my body screamed contrariwise yet.

Similarly, you probably grew into really liking girls*, as did most other people, not because it was a gradual process, but because you just weren't all that capable of really liking girls until you reached puberty. Before puberty, children tend to have crushes based on just barely sexual feelings and whatever they are told is normal (most likely, heterosexuality).
* or liking boys if you are a girl

Also, if sexuality was a learned trait, I would probably have been able to turn myself straight by now. As soon as I had figured out that I was gay, I got scared shitless, and I did everything I could to guilt trip myself into acting like I was attracted to girls for a few years. I was more or less told that I liked girls as soon as I met girls my age, too. I can't really think of an outside source that influenced me to like boys. I just liked boys and figured that there's nothing I could do (or really had to do) to change that.

Of course, I'm just speaking for the majority of homosexuals. Sexuality (and gender identity while we're at it) is unique for just about everybody. It's not Mendel's tall and short pea plants, I tell ya hwhat. Most everybody is born with an unalterable sexual makeup, but I wouldn't be surprised if one or two people could actually choose, or maybe someone who was bisexual grew to focus on one gender, or something like that. The possibilities are limitless!

First off, I'd like to thank you for a polite and educated response. Hearing this from (what I get from you saying this) a homosexual, this actually opens up my eyes a bit. If it was something you actually grew up with, and you were NOT exposed to homosexual actions to bring you up that way, then perhaps I was wrong half way. As for now, I believe not only are homosexuals born with it, but you can't tell me EVERY SINGLE ONE is born gay. Some had to have been brought up that way or figured it out on their own.

I appreciate the fair input and it's good to hear things from someone who lives it.

[Sexbad]

Some had to have been brought up that way or figured it out on their own.

Well, most gay people do have to figure that stuff out on their own! Just saying.

But as I mentioned, sexuality is pretty fluid. You aren't going to meet many people who identify themselves as anything beyond members of the straight/bi/gay trilogy who didn't choose whatever, but it's pretty exciting when you learn something different about somebody.

EDIT: As an aside, it turns out that I can change my username now. I haven't been here in a while so I just saw this new feature! I was Lee.

[eliasfrost]

I find this statement ironic in its own right, as it calls me ignorant
yet proceeds to leave me in "ignorance" by use of ad hominem rather than
attempting to support their own assertion. Do you not recall that
homosexuality used to be a declared mental disorder? Yet, it is no
longer declared that because people asserted "gay rights" and "love."
The same line of reasoning can be used for other forms of sexuality, but
i'm "the ignorant one" for realising this?

So being heterosexual could be a mental disorder? because hetero and homosexuality is essentially the same thing.

[Danny Boy]

I don't understand what made people come to this conclusion over and over again wend most of them don't even know what makes people "gay". Someone doesn't come up whit the idea of "hey I wanna be gay!" some gay people don't want to be gay! hell they are insulted by a huge amount of people! some in their dennial go to those "straight camps" or whatever they are called. being gay IS NOT something you CHOOSE! did you choose to be straight? no! i am straight and its not because i want to! its hormonal! it haves to do whit the development of the baby in the mother's womb! its not a decision nor it is genetic! the sooner people understand this the better!

Now, now, Danarogon, like I said, I can appreciate an argument, so long as it is under control. Let's keep on the road correctly, please? What you said raises a valuable point and I can agree to the hormonal thing. What I can say is that since I am not gay, I can not see through the eyes of one. I may be wrong, but it was my interpretation of it, wrong or not. Don't exclaim and get angered when someone thinks differently than you. You can derail a thread easily by doing so.

sorry if i sounded pissed but it wasn't intensional

[nemesis567]

Hmm no? do you even know the difference between hormones and genes? Let
me give you an example. there are two twin brothers (therefore same DNA)
one of them is straight and the other is gay. its not because one of
them denies being gay. but its because when they where in the womb, one
of them didn't received enough testosterone into the brain. therefore
his brain didn't developed as a men's brain but yes as a women's brain.
so literally our sexuality isn't genetic, but we are born whit it
nonethel

(therefore same DNA) - Almost.

The fact that one receives less hormones than other is not by itself enough to make someone homosexual or not as it depends on so many factors impossible to account for including the receptivity of each cell to the hormone itself. Then it's associated not only with the person's genetic profile but also with the mother's. The case you presented is too specific to take any conclusions. IN that case it is associated with hormones, and external factors, including the mother's genetic profile.

Spoiler below!

To Danaragon
Pessoalmente, estou farto de respostas sarcasticas, insultuosas e sem sentido da tua parte. Se tens algo útil a dizer, que frequentemente tens, evita colocar no meio coisas como: "do you even know the difference between hormones and genes". E sim, sei muito bem qual é a diferença entre ambos, MUITO BEM. Mas por favor evita responder dessa forma a pessoas que não te fizeram mal nenhum por que é deveras desagradavel.

[spukrian]

I realise choosing the label is not the same as being the label, hence my previous statement and why i claimed A and B were in contradiction. As for your question: No, i don't believe lying is the right thing to do.

I still don't understand in what way you think I have contradicted myself. Eh, whatever, moving on...

True, but that wasn't your original statement.

My original statement was "some babies grow up to be homosexual adults and this is not their own choice". It's NOT my problem if you deliberately misinterpret what I write.

Your correlation between being left-handed and being gay is being born with it. Even though being "left-handed" and being "right-handed" also deals with effort put towards the "skill," for being either does not imply lack of the other (and therefore neither would homosexuality imply the lack of heterosexuality),

My point, which you missed, is that left handed people DO NOT CHOOSE to be left handed. It has nothing to do with skill.

but we know use of either can be shown through science, specifically anatomy (a form of science that has no reason to support homosexuality); homosexuality cannot. If you think it can or if you think you have undeniable scientific evidence for homosexuality, you may post it. Stating that you are not a scientist and therefore seek not to speculate on the matter would be irrelevant, since you would be directing me to, at least presumably, a scientist.

I will see what I can dig up!

I am not one who likes to feign ignorance for the sake of providing the benefit of the doubt. For this reason i put a lot of thought into what i say. If someone can find something (logically) wrong with my statement, i would then be better off and better prepared for any future statements i decide to make. If you find the fact that i would prefer for you to provide better statements either annoying or a form of destructive criticism, i would say don't expect me to stop.

Oh, I think understand better how your mind works now. That was a good insight. Oh yes, I do find it a bit annoying but I never expected you to stop (why would I want you to stop?).

Two reasons: I believe in the absolute authority which declares it as such, and (therefore) it contradicts what i would coin "the law of most compatibility." This "law" i do not limit to just the physical; i also include relational, which applies likewise to heterosexuals and any other forms of sexuality. I believe following such a rationale would create better relationships overall, for things like lust would be a deviation from such a "law."

Maybe you should start questioning this authority, maybe you'll learn some new tricks.

If you don't believe in God, that is not an issue i would have to address, for without an absolute authority, "right" and "wrong" are equals. In which case, you shouldn't care whether i am for or against homosexuality.

I'd love to discuss religion and morals with you, but in another thread perhaps.

If providing a list means a more sound argument, then i probably do, but you have already stated that homosexuality should be judged under the same criteria as heterosexuality.

Good, then maybe you understand what I'm trying to say...

However, heterosexuals do not engage in homosexual acts except when they want to be homosexuals.

...but this quote just shows your flawed worldview.

[Adny]

@thisthread




Everyone can pretend they're unbiased and that there is definite evidence on this subject, when in reality there isn't. Just like everything else in the world, it is subject to different view points; the sooner people realize this and stop trying to flex their internet muscles/prove they're right on a subject that truly doesn't matter*, the sooner we can go back to what's important:

Flaming jump-scare maps! (<-- my lawyer informed me I should add: /sarcasm to that part)

*it does matter, but not to the people in this thread who aren't having sex with the persons of aforementioned sexuality.

[spukrian]

andyrockin123, I can of course only speak for myself, but I enjoy discussing things on the Internet, I don't see this as a fight at all.

Here's a scientific study on homosexuality in men, I hope this is good enough.