Deus Ex

[the dark side]

the problem for me is, i run on a system of "gameplay is everything" in the First person Shooter genre, i run the same system in other genres as well, as i came up with games that had pretty much next to No storyline or Voice overs, so they had to have awesome gameplay to keep the players interest, the only genres that didnt really focuss on gameplay and focussed more on story were turn based RPG and Point and Click adventure (i rank frictionals games as a moderniseation of that particular genre), there was the odd exception like the first 2 "Metal Gear" games, but those exceptions were extremely rare.

To me, if the gameplay is bad, then the whole game is bad, you can have the greatest story ever written for a game in that genre, but if the gameplay is bad, i rapidly get A-N-G-R-Y (i mean to the level i have to physically stop myself from throwing the keyboard/controller pad (depends on system) out of the window) and loose all interest.

"Meltdowns" are less then pleaseant, they are a full loss of all mental control to a total hurricane of sheer unstoppable Rage, i hate having them, unfortunatly, people with aspergers, like myself, or other vairents of autism are particularly prone to them, so i like to disasociate myself from anything that causes me to have them as fast as humanly possible, wich sadly, is 90% of modern video games, let alone Deus EX as they mostly all use the "call of duty" gameplay style i find to be unplayable, or focus on online "anti-social" multiplayer, wich is far too hostile for me to cope with, its why i have absolutely reached the end of my tether with the mainstream games industry.

so, as great as the storyline for human revolution probably is (is the noveliseation any good?, that may be a good way for me to experience it) and i know from screenshots the art direction is fantastic, but i just could not enjoy them because the gameplay used mechanics that caused me to Explode!

oh well, i can still enjoy the first 2, its better than a kick in the teeth, Hopefully Deus Ex 4 will come after COD inevitably collapses under its own ineptitude and takes the whole mainstream industry with it in the inevitable repeat of 1983 that is on the way, (just ask any independant industry analyst) so gaming will have gone back to the "pseudo modern" and classic eras, as will be demanded by the surviving gamers and prefered by the surviving developers, shorn free of the demands of greedy american congromolate megapublishers.

perhaps Dishounored may be the savior of Deus Ex, as that uses Resolutly old school gameplay mechanics (no health regen (eat a rat to recover, a sick but cool and unique take on the medpack!), no weapon limit, fixed 'hairs on projectile weapons (crossbow, musket, flintlock pistols, etc), zoom aim on projectiles, etc), hopefully Eidos will realise that it would make a much more natural competitor (story based FPS/RPG/Stealth game for the Singular Player) for Deus ex (and more pertinatly given the "steampunk" setting, Theif) than Call Of Duty is ("dumb as all sin warzone gun w**k" (thanks crosshaw!) with no real "story" just a tutorial for Anti Social Multiplayer), and will revert to the classic mechanics to take on Bethesdas Stelath/Rpg/ Proper Shooter. heres hoping!

[Kman]

I'd just like to point this out, for most people those gameplay issues you've been talking about... Aren't really a problem. I can understand why for you they could ruin a game, but honestly I've never really even taken note of them in any game I've played, let alone let it ruin a game for me, and I think the majority of people would agree. It's fine if you don't like a game like I said for those reasons, but don't act like just because of that the entire game is automatically terrible. I haven't played Human Revolution myself so I can't really be one to judge, but from what I've heard it is a very good game, but just assuming that it's "just some CoD clone" because it has a few elements that CoD uses (if I'm correct they were actually used in games that predate CoD, so you can't even really call them CoD gameplay elements) is rediculous.

[the dark side]

yes, they were used in a few games before Call of Duty, but in many cases they were either a mild effect that was only available on easy (health regeneration was in a few on easy difficulty on the bottom 25% of the lifebar) could be turned OFF (Dynamic scaling) or were in select few games and less than popular until 2006 (gun limit, many games got a whole POINT knocked off there score for this back before 2006), its only been since MW part1 took off in 2006 that the mechanics have been Mandatory and major gameplay elements.

if they are mild and dissapear on harder difficulties (such as regen) or optional (dynamic scaling, sadly, the LAST game i remember with the option to turn the scaling effect "off" was S.T.A.L.K.E.R Series in 2007-2009..(damn good games, rest in peace GSC)) i am fine, but if forced, and COD was the first game to popularise "Forcing" those mechanics, i am not fine, and i will call Any game that forces them a "call of duty clone" because they are copying what "call of duty" is doing, forcing inferior mechanics and "dumbed down" difficulty, and Damaging the games industry, doubtless in a foolish attempt to zerox its Inexplicable popularity.

its even MORE annoying when you look at the fact sales of both the "call of duty" franchise and games that copy its mechanics are flagging (mw3 failed to sell 2 million units in the UK), and the sales of more traditional games are starting to overtake them, and yet the publishers are STILL blind to the fact the "modern shooter" has literally been done to death and people are thankfully loosing interest in them.

As much as a games crash is Needed, to get rid of the money grabbing american megacorps, Inept dead wood developers (ea black box as an example from the racing genre, ONE good game in a decade is less than a stellar record, criterion is another example of inept dead wood, Not ONE good game, EVER, they should have just stuck to making graphics engines) and mainstream casual gamers who are all damaging the industry beyond repair, it still makes me sad to know there will be one as a lot of people are going to loose there jobs when they dont really deserve too, as i said, a lot of publishers are Forced to make "Modern casual" games by greedy, inept, publishers, when personally, they would much rather make a more traditional title.

yes, indeed, although the mechanics mentioned are not a problem for the majority of Neurologically Typical people, they are OFTEN, in particular focal distraction issues with Dynamic scaling, a major issue for people with autism spectrum disorders.

(hmm, i wonder, could we actually have a disability discrimination case against the industry there?)

like i said, i do have learning difficulties, i am not the most intelligent of people in some areas, and explaining things to the majority of people is one of the areas i do not really excell at. so i have to use generalised sayings, such as "call of duty clone", so i can give people a rough idea what i am on about so they can understand what my problem with the games and the mainstream games industry in general is.

[Bridge]

I totally respect your reasons for disliking it, dark side, but you still haven't addressed my point. The game can be fully ghosted and I did, which was a very enjoyable experience for me. Stealth usually requires patience and perfect timing and it is oftentimes very slow. Almost all of the issues you have with the game are non-existent if you take a stealthy approach to the gameplay. I can understand with your autism you may not be mentally able to do that, but at least acknowledge that it's a viable option. Calling it a bad Call of Duty clone is just wrong; you only get what you bring with you out of it. If you play it like a CoD game then of course it's going to play like that.

[spukrian]

Ok, the dark side, I'm sorry that expanding crosshairs and aim down sights make you unable to play the game. Personally I enjoy expanding crosshairs, especially in Deus Ex (and IIRC in NOLF2 as well) where they are a reflection of character skill. Of course, there are features of modern, casual games that I don't like (health regen, cover systems and some others) but if the game is really good I'll be able look past it's flaws.

Gun limit is supposedly implemented because switching between more than two guns is too difficult when using a console control pad. Seems like a silly reason but what do I know, I don't own any consoles.

[the dark side]

its not a silly reason at all, its just an excuse for lazy game design, i have many consoles, have owned them for years, including ones that have far less buttons than a modern system (n64) and they have handled "more than 2 guns" with no issue. the best 2 systems i have found are the ones in Nightfire on the gamecube, and Perfect Dark on the n64. on Nightfire you used the D-pad, left and right cycled the guns, and up and down cycled the gadgets, on PD you just held A and used the anloque stick to select from a weapons wheel. both woprk every bit as well as the PC multi weapons select system, in fact i found the one for PD64 to be FASTER than any PC multi select i have ever used. so sayiong "it is too hard on a pad" is just an excuse for lazy design.

[spukrian]

Well, that's kind of what I meant, it's a silly excuse for something else, but I digress.

[the dark side]

indeed. and EEEK, forum glitch!, it didnt post the whole message. ill have to finish it with this one.

@Bridge, thanks for the kind support. i am afraid to say i dont own human revolution, i only rented it, mainly due to the fact i enjoyed deus ex one and 2, but i didnt want to buy 3 outright because it was a different dev and they had made some design desisions i saw as "incompetant". as a rental is only 3 days, i didnt have time to "go ghost", i had to blast through,. sadly the experience was bad enough for me, to not only not bother finishing the game, but it soured me both against deus ex (if its gonna be like that from now on, then they might as well axe it now and be done) and everyone involved in human revolution, both the publishers and the developers.

my mistake i quess!

don't worry, unlike some autistic people i know, i CAN cope with stealth, in fact, i enjoy it, as its a real challenge, after all, one of my all time favourite console games ever is the Original "Metal Gear Solid" and NOLF 1, my 3rd favourite of ALL my games, on any system, has an entire episode, "a man of influence" of some really top quality, and in one level, keyboard trashingly challenging, stealth.

i will still hold it as a bad game as it suffered from LAZY design, and a LACK OF THAUGHT, both things i absolutely refuse to tolerate, to me the Developer is a BAD developer, because they were LAZY because they didnt take the 5 minuites to programme the option to turn off the dynamic scaling, and they didnt do that because they didnt THINK about people with focal distraction, all they could see was the piles of wonga from the modern shooter fans, (wich backfired as, like many modern shooter games as of late, human revolution didnt sell at all well, as the modern shooter has been done to death). as it came from a BAD developer, to me, its automatically a BAD game,. that is to me, personally, however, i wont stop people thinking its a great game if they think its a great game, im just explaining why I thaught it was a stinker of a game and an isult to my "ideal" of what Deus EX actually is.


@spukrian, indeed, it is a Silly reason, especially when other Developers and companies have not only proven a PS3 or xbox 360 pad can handle a heck of a lot of guns at once, but have also openly said that having a gun limit is "lazy design and programming", albiet far more diplomatically, i seem to remember the team that made resistance 3 (wich reminds me, ALSO has the option to turn the Dynamic Scaling OFF, meaning S.T.A.L.K.E.R isnt the LAST game to have that option), a ps3 exclusive game from last year, wrote a whole article about!

indeed, each to there own, i know some people like to have dynamic scaling, as it makes them play more skillfully and makes them feel like they are using a "real gun" with recoil and bullet drift and Gravity Drop off, its why i want to see the ressurection of the system that Deus EX 1, Nolf II (nolf 1 as well!) and many others had, that let you got to "options-crosshairs-Dynamic Scaling-off". so those players who do like them still have them, but those who dont like, or cant cope with, them, can just turn them off, i dont know why the option was ever dropped, lazyness again i suspect, but it really is inexcuseble that most western studios dont have the option, when it was retained not only be the developer of a title that was Exclusive to a Mainstream CONSOLE, a game that came out LAST YEAR at that, but also by a very low budget, but mercurially talented russian studio who i miss terribly despite the fact they only shut down a few months ago called GSC Gameworlds |(Rest in peace comrades), the only reason is lazy design, wich i refuse to tolerate because, basically, its a form of Incompetance, and i dont see why incompetant developers should be paid MILLIONS (they shouldnt be paid at all!), were as really competant ones, like GSC have to go to the wall for lack of funds.

as for casual mechanics, i REALLY hate those, as to me, an easy game is a BORING game, my approch to "new players" is "man up and Deal with it, Or dont play games!" basically as it was in the 1990s. the whole fun of a game is in its challenge, if there is no challenge, there is no enterainment, and if there is no entertainment, whats the friggen point? i cannot STAND regen health, as not only does it make a game too easy and robs it of that "2 percent health, no medpacks.. and i can hear a Boss incoming... oh SHIII---" moments, it also makes the player play like a cowardly wimp, im sorry, if i want to be a wimp, ill stay in REALITY thank you very much.

i hate lock on cover as well, as then it turns the game, basically, into target practice, as you only need to worry about pop n shoot. i dont mind a "bob and weave" ability when in zoom aim (medal of honour: frontline, is a great example of this mechanic, but i dont know if it was ever ported to pc or if it was console only, mines on ps2)as sometimes it can be Vital when youve taken one to many Mp40 hits to the love spuds and are on 10% health buth that fat 50% restoring "feild surgeons pack" is 20 nazi goons away!

i also REALLY hate that "press (THIS) to" thing, i dont mind the "hand icon" like penumbra or RTCW, but i really hate being told what button to press as i HATE being patronised, another aspie i know summed it up best "dont hold my hand! if i want help, ill ask for it thankyou!" as far as i am concerned, controll hints should be tutorial only, after that.. Read...The,....Manual.

basically, i hate modern mainstream gaming, as its just not Gaming as far as i am concerned.