Admit One

[Bridge]

The popular misconception of feminism as a hate movement - particularly the conflation of it with the extremely misogynist Nazi ideology - is boring and spouted by thoughtless people. When women are half of the species, equal treatment is necessary and sensible.

But come on, guys, let's all get hyper-emotional and ironically 'feminine' when some girl/guy even mentions sexism. It's our duty as children to screech and shut down discussion, because clearly listening and solving those actual problems. Let's just assume all feminists want to roast your balls on an open fire because bogeywomen are easier to create than, say, teaching more men to not be rapists.

Spoiler below!

Talking about feminism with male gamers is always a lost cause.

Is this a joke? I don't see how it's possible for someone to write such a condescending and hypocritical statement. Do you really not see how fallacious it is to refute an argument in favor of sexual discrimination with such an egregious double standard? To top it off, the arguments you were supposedly refuting were totally imaginary.

Can you point me to one post here that claims that feminism is inherently a hate movement, or that gender equality is something that should not be strived for?

Which brings me to the double standard I mentioned. Why does the opinion of a male weigh less to you than that of a woman? That is in itself sexism and illustrates that you are just as disillusioned as the extremists. Furthermore, why does the fact that one is a gamer have any bearing on one's credence when it comes to this issue? Ignoring the fact that the number of female gamers has seen a very sharp rise in recent years, the idea that gamers are all basement dwellers with no knowledge of how the real world works is an entirely different type of discrimination. So, answer me truthfully: Does what a female gamer think about sexism have more weight than what a male gamer thinks about sexism? If you answered yes, then it is clear that you do not actually advocate equality, but are just as bad as the feminist extremists you claim to loath, spinning crazy tales of one large male conspiracy.

[VaeVictis]

The popular misconception of feminism as a hate movement - particularly the conflation of it with the extremely misogynist Nazi ideology - is boring and spouted by thoughtless people. When women are half of the species, equal treatment is necessary and sensible.

But come on, guys, let's all get hyper-emotional and ironically 'feminine' when some girl/guy even mentions sexism. It's our duty as children to screech and shut down discussion, because clearly listening and solving those actual problems. Let's just assume all feminists want to roast your balls on an open fire because bogeywomen are easier to create than, say, teaching more men to not be rapists.

Spoiler below!

Talking about feminism with male gamers is always a lost cause.

Is this a joke? I don't see how it's possible for someone to write such a condescending and hypocritical statement. Do you really not see how fallacious it is to refute an argument in favor of sexual discrimination with such an egregious double standard? To top it off, the arguments you were supposedly refuting were totally imaginary.

Can you point me to one post here that claims that feminism is inherently a hate movement, or that gender equality is something that should not be strived for?

Which brings me to the double standard I mentioned. Why does the opinion of a male weigh less to you than that of a woman? That is in itself sexism and illustrates that you are just as disillusioned as the extremists. Furthermore, why does the fact that one is a gamer have any bearing on one's credence when it comes to this issue? Ignoring the fact that the number of female gamers has seen a very sharp rise in recent years, the idea that gamers are all basement dwellers with no knowledge of how the real world works is an entirely different type of discrimination. So, answer me truthfully: Does what a female gamer think about sexism have more weight than what a male gamer thinks about sexism? If you answered yes, then it is clear that you do not actually advocate equality, but are just as bad as the feminist extremists you claim to loath, spinning crazy tales of one large male conspiracy.

As I stated before, the member of an opressive group has no right to claim what the oppressed should feel. As a male in the gaming community, you aren't likely to experience the harassament the female gamer has. Threats of rape, violence, humiliating inferences about their sex life (or lack thereof), and their general worthiness to be called a 'gamer' is something even I can attest to, something my male friends never seem to get.
It's not a consipracy, it's simple fact. As a male, you don't have the first hand experience. Just as a white person in America, I have no right to belittle the experiences of a person of color, so you do not have the right to tell a female what her experiences 'probably' are/were.

TL;DR: Check yo privilege.

[Kreekakon]

As I stated before, the member of an opressive group has no right to claim what the oppressed should feel. As a male in the gaming community, you aren't likely to experience the harassament the female gamer has. Threats of rape, violence, humiliating inferences about their sex life (or lack thereof), and their general worthiness to be called a 'gamer' is something even I can attest to, something my male friends never seem to get.
It's not a consipracy, it's simple fact. As a male, you don't have the first hand experience. Just as a white person in America, I have no right to belittle the experiences of a person of color, so you do not have the right to tell a female what her experiences 'probably' are/were.

TL;DR: Check yo privilege.

If what you say stands wouldn't it really suck if I had an opinion on the entire matter, but am not taken seriously just because I'm from the "oppressive" group?

If you have valid claims, those claims shouldn't be any less valid whether, or not which "side" (*Shudders at the thought of having to call sides*) you're from.

Real Life Example: Lots of Blizzard related Hearthstone news I go to I see people screaming for beta keys, and nothing else. The moment the beta started I thought they were going too far, and such a plea for something as trivial as a beta invite was ridiculous.

About a week ago, I got a beta invite for Hearthstone from Blizzard. I still have not changed my mind about the people who don't who are constantly begging for a key. Is my opinion now less worthwhile because I now have received a key?

[VaeVictis]

As I stated before, the member of an opressive group has no right to claim what the oppressed should feel. As a male in the gaming community, you aren't likely to experience the harassament the female gamer has. Threats of rape, violence, humiliating inferences about their sex life (or lack thereof), and their general worthiness to be called a 'gamer' is something even I can attest to, something my male friends never seem to get.
It's not a consipracy, it's simple fact. As a male, you don't have the first hand experience. Just as a white person in America, I have no right to belittle the experiences of a person of color, so you do not have the right to tell a female what her experiences 'probably' are/were.

TL;DR: Check yo privilege.

If what you say stands wouldn't it really suck if I had an opinion on the entire matter, but am not taken seriously just because I'm from the "oppressive" group?

If you have valid claims, those claims shouldn't be any less valid whether, or not which "side" (*Shudders at the thought*) you're from.

It's not that you can't have an opinion, but it's just not going to hold as much weight since you have male privilege. NOTE: 'Privilege' does NOT mean your life is easy, it just means that, because of whatever trait, you can worry less about certain things (racial profiling, sexual harassment, etc...).

[Nice]

okay sorry but i cant hold this back anymore. It's true that women got majorly discriminated in the past and they still do sometimes, but definetly not to the point that there should be a revolution or something. Imo they get equally discriminated as men get. There ARE cases where women are accepted somewhere because they're women, while the man gets rejected. I'm not talking out of nothing, for example, my friend took a part time job to work as a waiter at a restuarant. Then some girl appeared and they kicked him out and took the girl because..well...She was a girl. Simple as that. There's also cases where females do something wrong and they're all forgiven all of a sudden because they are women. Then there's also the unwritten rules "Don't hit women" or "Don't talk like that, she's a girl". And as someone that that competes regulary i can confirm that girls are often judged much more softly, heck sometimes the "win" is literally just handed to them because of it.

As bold and rude as i sound, females should pick their side already. Sometimes they play the "Ohh i'm so soft and powerless, i'm just a woman! Ohh i'm a girl i'm too weak to do that...Oh i'm a girl i cant work that hard!" While at other cases they go in a frenzied state of femi nazi and scream out "WE ARE EQUAL AS MEN, THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE, WE ARE JUST AS CAPABLE!" Pick one for gods sake.

Forgot to add, about the competitions and them being judged not equally as men are. Tell you what, I know quite a number of female breakdancers that would smoke the hell out of me or any other guy. Why? Because she practises just as hard as us or even more. While I KNOW that there are girls that go "I can't practise 4 hours a day! I'm just a girl!"

[Bridge]

As I stated before, the member of an opressive group has no right to claim what the oppressed should feel. As a male in the gaming community, you aren't likely to experience the harassament the female gamer has. Threats of rape, violence, humiliating inferences about their sex life (or lack thereof), and their general worthiness to be called a 'gamer' is something even I can attest to, something my male friends never seem to get.
It's not a consipracy, it's simple fact. As a male, you don't have the first hand experience. Just as a white person in America, I have no right to belittle the experiences of a person of color, so you do not have the right to tell a female what her experiences 'probably' are/were.

But that's the thing: I'm not a member of an oppressive group, in fact I hoped you would have noticed that that was an integral point in my argument. The idea that men oppress women is childish. Certain men oppress certain women, and the system has numerous regrettable kinks in it at the moment, but there is no conspiracy. And when did I ever claim that females should feel a certain way, or even claim to truly know what they go through (or perceive they go through)? Even so, are you saying it is impossible or not allowed for someone to be sympathetic towards another person's struggles simply because they do not experience said struggles themselves? I have a pretty good guess what being discriminated against on the basis of sex feels like, and I do not in any way support it.

Is the opinion of a male chauvinist who went through extreme persecution by females, say by growing up in a household with nine sisters and no father, automatically worth more because he knows what it's like? And you can't say he doesn't just because he's not a female being oppressed by males, because otherwise you too are employing a double standard, which you ostensibly advocate against. Why should people like me, who advocate pure unfiltered democracy among the sexes (because it is the only option that makes any rational sense), be ridiculed and discriminated against because we lack the experience?

Again, I'm not so conceited to say that females do not have any type of social problem. I merely wanted to point out the glaring contradictions in Alardem's post.

[Kreekakon]

It's not that you can't have an opinion, but it's just not going to hold as much weight since you have male privilege. NOTE: 'Privilege' does NOT mean your life is easy, it just means that, because of whatever trait, you can worry less about certain things (racial profiling, sexual harassment, etc...).

You'll definitely have a harder time convincing people if you're from the other side true, and that's just a fact of the matter.

However, anyone who is able to (And no reason not to), should be able to logically look past this stuff, and identify who has a valid claim regardless of what group you're from. Sadly, I do not believe most people can bring themselves to see this.

[Cuyir]

Well, this quickly went into the ''YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND CAUSE YOU'RE MALE'' place I was expecting it to go.

Bridge is spot on, same with Kreekakon. Just because guys have had x and y doesn't mean that every single man is part of the oppressive group.

And funny thing about male privileges is that we expect men to be strong, to put everyone else before themselves and all that.

I honestly don't want to discuss this anymore if such arguments are going to be thrown around. Now more than ever I recommend people to see the videos Pahdee linked, cause wow.

[Danny Boy]

I admit I have a urge to kill and masturbate to the corpses of everyone who has a custom "rank" under their nicknames because I didn't have internet when the mods were giving them away.

[Danny Boy]

I just got one without asking.