(09-14-2013, 04:43 PM)Diz Wrote: This is the first time I lay foot inside this thread, so I have not caught up with what is being discussed or speculated, so I apologize if this has been mentioned before, which it probably has. Anyway, I started up the intro again of the game, and then it occured to me ...
Spoiler below!
Is it possible that two of the creatures are actually your twin sons, always one step ahead of you, waiting for you, and that they actually want you to follow them, and they somehow manifest as hallucinations/ghosts with voices? It probably sounds silly, but hey, this is the world of Amnesia we are talking about. There sure is something very fishy about the whole hallucination/ghost deal.
I think they actually may be part of the Machine's half of Oswald's minds communicating with him like the telephone calls. They are likely not real at all, since no forces in the game seem to demonstrate reality warping.
It is likely I think that the children's image were played off by one part Oswald's guilt in killing them, and another part in the machine noticing, taking advantage of it, and manifesting those into actual images which he used to begin Oswald's motivation to go underground.
Notice how the children keep telling daddy to "keep on going" in the general direction that the machine wants him to go.
I just had a crazy idea about split timeline, do you think it could work? Death of Lily made some cracks in Oswald's mind/soul, and when he found that Stone Egg (orb?) in the Temple in Mexico it split (we know from DD that Orbs act differently for each person and have many applications) him/his consciousness between/on two timelines: one with Oswald the Engineer and one with Mandus. It explain many things, like doppleganger (evil Oswald in the sarcophagus), the dead-alive kids (one Oswald killed them in Mexico, another didn't), the amnesia (no actual amnesia, Mandus just does not know what his other half, the Engineer, did). Machine -- the Orb? -- brought him to 1st timeline to fix the device, restart it. This also explain all the hints about "bisecuted, split on two" and "make myself whole again", weird flashback ("This is not me! I never said that!").
Aztecs wore masks for every important religious and civic ceremony. Priests used masks to connect to the deities and ask for favors or draw attention to auspicious sacrifices. The year was organized around agriculture and great feasts and sacrifices took place to appease and importune Cinteotl, the corn god; Tlaloc, god of rain, corn and fertility; Tonatiah, a sun god; and major omnipotent gods like Quetzalcoatl, Tezcatlipoca and Huitzilopochtli. For fire ceremonies, priests wore costumes that resembled Tlaloc and added masks to symbolize putting on the god's power before their ritual distribution of sacred fire. Rulers were invested with their earthly powers, which included divine status and the ability to intercede directly with deities, by putting on the ceremonial masks of the gods and "becoming" them in an elaborate rite.
DEATH MASKS
Death masks typically have closed eyes and open mouths, but the mouth may also be solid as the mask will not be worn by a living person. Only high-ranking Aztecs were given the privilege of wearing ornamental death masks made of precious materials. The mask was believed to animate whatever or whomever wore it, so a royal or important corpse would be dressed in the clothing of a particular god, the face covered with the mask of the god's face. After the ruler was cremated, the mask might be used to "animate" an effigy of the former king so it could receive valuable tribute from neighboring allies who came to honor the passing of power. Some funerary masks were buried with a corpse or ashes; others were offered to the gods or preserved in memory of the deceased by heirs.
SKIN DEEP
Aztec warriors who killed in battle literally wore the face of their enemy. The dead warrior's facial skin was flayed off and made into a mask that could be offered to the gods or worn by the victor. The masks were treated to resemble soft leather hide and could also be "enlivened" with the addition of eyeballs, tongues and noses made from shell or stone. These reanimated faces with filled-in orifices could not be worn in post-battle celebrations -- they were left at temple altars or buried in ceremonial offerings.
Bolded and underlined by me. Bolded what I consider of key-value to the story's interpretation. Underlined what I consider to require more research (on the intepreter's side).
Here I pause and crawl back, some research needs to be done.
(09-14-2013, 05:28 PM)cantremember Wrote: I still don't understand half the story. When humans are fed into the machine don't they die and get extracted vitae.
How & why did he make manbearpigs.
The pig men were created to drag people to the machine for slaughter, like a role reversal of modern pigs and men. Like you see in the attack on London part at the end. They also worked around the machine too I think like sort of guards or security to make sure no one unwelcome got in or none of the orphans tried to escape.
They were also created as pigs because Mandus saw real men as pigs and it symbolised his disgust for them as well as pig men being docile to work with
Back with more information. Prepare yourselves. Really.
A summary regarding the Fire Ceremony (courtesy of English Wikipedia).
Spoiler below!
"The New Fire ceremony (in Nahuatl xiuhmolpilli—the Binding of the Years) was an Aztec ceremony performed once every 52 years — a full cycle of the Aztec calendar— in order to stave off the end of the world."
Nope. According to researches, 1899 wouldn't be the year of the ritual. (Last ceremony was held in 1507 and adding 52 years doesn't pinpoint 1899). However, not being the end of the Aztec's cycle doesn't mean it wouldn't be Mandus'. It was said, that during the last 5 days before commencing the ceremony, the unstable world would tend to shift. That'd explain, why some areas of the game seem to re-shape.
The Machine (imo influenced by an Aztec... something) also needed the ritual to continue (killing all those people of London) and had many times warned Mandus' of the future instability of world, it promised to stop the world from ending, from all the wars etc. Mandus destroyed the Machine, simultaneously destroying the mean to held the Fire Ceremony. All the wars happended - a symbolic end of the world wouldn't stop.
Tlaloc - a god. "He is known for having demanded child sacrifices".
Now, many gods had such demands, but there's something else about that one. One of the Tlaloc rites:
"The Atlcahualo was celebrated from the 12th of February until the 3rd of March. Dedicated to the Tlaloque, this veintena involved the sacrifice of many children on sacred mountaintops. The children were beautifully adorned, dressed in the style of Tlaloc and the Tlaloque. On litters strewn with flowers and feathers; surrounded by dancers, they were transported to a shrine and their hearts would be pulled out by priests".
12.02-03.03 - The Mexico trip, anyone? Days correct?
Sacrifice of many children? - checked.
Pulling out hearts? - checked.
Mandus performed Atlcahualo on his children in Mexico.
"Afterwards their doughy chests were opened, their "hearts" taken out and, finally, their bodies cut up and eaten. The ornaments with which they had been adorned were taken and burned in peoples’ patios. On the final day of the "veintena" people celebrated and held banquets".
Burned in peoples' patios... Mandus' garden and children's skulls? Well, it depends on what he considered to be... ornaments, with which his children were to be adorned.
So, it is all around Tlaloc. Oh, and he fancied feathers. Not sure about jaguars' skins though.
Quote:"The Atlcahualo was celebrated from the 12th of February until the 3rd of March. Dedicated to the Tlaloque, this veintena involved the sacrifice of many children on sacred mountaintops. The children were beautifully adorned, dressed in the style of Tlaloc and the Tlaloque. On litters strewn with flowers and feathers; surrounded by dancers, they were transported to a shrine and their hearts would be pulled out by priests".
12.02-03.03 - The Mexico trip, anyone? Days correct?
Sacrifice of many children? - checked.
Pulling out hearts? - checked.
Mandus performed Atlcahualo on his children in Mexico.
Yeah, but it can't be Mexico: Edwin and Enoch's diary, October 3rd 1899
unless we take into account my timeline hypothesis.
Haven't had a chance to go through the entire thread yet, so apologies if this has been brought up:
Someone in a YT comment linked this which talks about the idea of the "influencing machine" as a paranoid delusion of sorts and its kind of pushing me more towards the idea that the majority of what you play through isn't actually "real". Obviously not everything fits and the idea of man/society as a machine is fairly common theme in a lot of things, but its an interesting idea.
On a different note, has the great-uncle reference been discussed anymore? I think read here that most people were leaning towards him being a descendant of Alexander- but that almost seems like it doesn't fit what we know from TDD about Alexander's backstory.
I'm wondering how much the orb could have shown him or influenced him with; if he could see the future of the 20th century, could he see the past (past in this case being TDD)? I wonder if he meant great-uncle in a metaphorical way like 'he's my predecessor for work with such experiments and the orb so he's like an uncle of sorts'.
I also thought maybe he could have been referring to Daniel, since he does have Hazel and all and theoretically the descent line could go that way, but other mentions in the notes/journals don't really fit that either.
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