[SPOILER] Plot Discussion Thread *Spoiler Alert*

[LarryV]

What about the kaernk in the Sewers?

It's the same type of creature that haunted down Daniel but only faster and electric.

It's might not be a big deal in the overall story but it does connect TDD with AMFP

I can't think of any other reason why the Kaernk would be "electric" except for them swapping dimensions like the Tesla pigs. It's definitely not explained in the notes.

As to why there are Kaernk in the sewers in the first place, Mandus could be making Weyer's Tonic which has Kaernk saliva as one of its ingredients.

Maybe the Kaernk got in touch with some of the new technology and ingredients that Mandus was using.

Maybe when they flooded that place, with all its shit, guts, and leftover something in the sewer changed the Kaernks

[exmachinax]

LarryV Wrote:

Have you read the From Hell companion?

Nope, unforunately not.

*****

A few random thoughts:

Why Enoch, an uncommon name in my opinion, as a name for one of the child? Seems it may be a direct biblical reference to Enoch (ancestor of Noah) or Enoch (son of Cain).

Also, why Lilibeth? So similar to Lilith, a character in Jewish mythology. Probably a stretch, but it just crossed my mind.

Since in the church we can clearly see the stained glass with a person with a jaguar mask tearing out a heart, I guess it would mean that or Mandus was seeing some things different from the way they are in the real world, or the whole thing was inside his mind since the beggining (both things have been pointed out many times before, but I just think that the stained glass is a strong evidence to some of these hypothesis).

I keep thinking about this passage:

"We are breaking through the barriers of death itself. Oh my dead darling Lily, it is too late for you, but I promise you this: I will save our children from death and, if need be, I will wrench them back from the blackness with this wonderful concoction!"

The machine has its sinister purpose but could it be that, since the child's heart are in the machine, Mandus hope the concoction could someday ressurect them. But first he says "I will save our children from death" and only after he mentions the concotion, and "if need be". Perhaps he means that to save them from death is not the same thing as ressurecting them? Perhaps they are saved from death being 2 hearts powering the machine... Sorry, I'm kinda rambling now.

Also the passage:

"I am an angel of death, descending to smother the firstborn for the death of the two that came after"

Is probably just a metaphor, as have been said and pointed the biblical reference before, but I can't help but feel that there is more to it that meets the eye. Who would be the firstborn in this case, if this is to be taken literally? The machine? No, can't be. Was there another child? And I realize this contradicts the game, but I thought of it anyway, maybe Mandus dark side already existed before and it is that the "firstborn"? Just pure speculation, I know.

Again about Jack the Ripper, in the passage: "Perhaps I should show him the tripery. See whether his stomach, so trained by rummaging in the innards of clumsily vivisected whores, is strong enough to stare into the real engines of his golden age. I may even introduce him to Jack, or his sons at least. We have stronger locks on the windows now, and we bring their toys to them."

Could it mean that Mandus itself was Jack the Ripper, and he is referencing his own sons? And he means that in the way that, he will introduce "Jack" to the Professor by killing him? And that the locks in the windows aren't meant to keep outside people/things from entering, but to keep people from leaving? ... But then I think of the part of "clumsily vivisected whores", and I think that, if Mandus was the Ripper, he would not call his own work clumsy, I guess. But maybe he is, and Jack the Ripper is his dark side/ the firstborn!!! Ehh, probaly no, quite a leap of faith, but this game left my imagination run wild.

[Kein]

I can't think of any other reason why the Kaernk would be "electric" except for them swapping dimensions like the Tesla pigs. It's definitely not explained in the notes.

As to why there are Kaernk in the sewers in the first place, Mandus could be making Weyer's Tonic which has Kaernk saliva as one of its ingredients.

Mandus didn't need/didn't use Weyers tonic at all, he w7as using Vitae's formula from Alexander/Daniel and some other ingredient called Oragon or Oragon... I forgot. Later, he managed to merge them into Compound X.

I did read the notes but an overheated teslapig that's invisible and can breath under water?

That's doesn't vibe with me.

We know that a Gatherer (grunt I think) got sent to Mandus and who knows what else hitched a ride in that crate. I say it's a kaernk that adapted to its surroundings.

The notes explain that some of the very unstable variants in the end shift the dimensions and go wild. These turned into Kaernk (invisible because they are between dimensions and barely present in this one).

[LarryV]

Hmmm, I don't remember that.

I'm going to re-play that level now.

I may owe someone an apologize

[Kein]

Is probably just a metaphor, as have been said and pointed the biblical reference before, but I can't help but feel that there is more to it that meets the eye. Who would be the firstborn in this case, if this is to be taken literally? The machine? No, can't be. Was there another child? And I realize this contradicts the game, but I thought of it anyway, maybe Mandus dark side already existed before and it is that the "firstborn"? Just pure speculation, I know.

There is a photo in the game, of a man (Oswald?) and 3 babies. We aren't sure if it is a leftover of what Samuel was talking before (placeholder) or actual in-game photo that correlates with setting.

Again about Jack the Ripper, in the passage: "Perhaps I should show him the tripery. See whether his stomach, so trained by rummaging in the innards of clumsily vivisected whores, is strong enough to stare into the real engines of his golden age. I may even introduce him to Jack, or his sons at least. We have stronger locks on the windows now, and we bring their toys to them."

Could it mean that Mandus itself was Jack the Ripper, and he is referencing his own sons? And he means that in the way that, he will introduce "Jack" to the Professor by killing him? And that the locks in the windows aren't meant to keep outside people/things from entering, but to keep people from leaving? ... But then I think of the part of "clumsily vivisected whores", and I think that, if Mandus was the Ripper, he would not call his own work clumsy, I guess. But maybe he is, and Jack the Ripper is his dark side/ the firstborn!!! Ehh, probaly no, quite a leap of faith, but this game left my imagination run wild.

i think he meant one of the pigs named Jack.

[LarryV]

You were right! I missed out on that note.

Sorry bout that.

[rotten]

There is a photo in the game, of a man (Oswald?) and 3 babies. We aren't sure if it is a leftover of what Samuel was talking before (placeholder) or actual in-game photo that correlates with setting.

you mean the one posted here somewhere? I thought it was just some random post mortem photo, which was a popular thing at that time. If you watched the movie The Others you probably know what I mean.

ADD:
I've just googled "post mortem victorian" and found that very photo (http://morningpassages.com/wp-content/up...0/04/a.png ), am I right?

[Vertical]

There is a photo in the game, of a man (Oswald?) and 3 babies. We aren't sure if it is a leftover of what Samuel was talking before (placeholder) or actual in-game photo that correlates with setting.

you mean the one posted here somewhere? I thought it was just some random post mortem photo, which was a popular thing at that time. If you watched the movie The Others you probably know what I mean.

Someone posted a hypothesis that what we're playing through had already happened. A mere recalling of some sort. If it was to be true, that photo would be to suggest that the entire Mandus family is already gone. Peci speculated before the release that its action may take place in some sort of Aztec afterlife with its deities-rulers playing with you all the time; that would explain, why some interiors change, why some abstract things happen etc. About the third child... no idea.

[Kein]

There is a photo in the game, of a man (Oswald?) and 3 babies. We aren't sure if it is a leftover of what Samuel was talking before (placeholder) or actual in-game photo that correlates with setting.

you mean the one posted here somewhere? I thought it was just some random post mortem photo, which was a popular thing at that time. If you watched the movie The Others you probably know what I mean.

ADD:
I've just googled "post mortem victorian" and found that very photo (http://morningpassages.com/wp-content/up...0/04/a.png ), am I right?

Makes perfect sense, moving on.

[rotten]

Well, I don't really think we should even consider this 3rd child, that would be too complicated. He is not really referenced in the game, so we must deal only with those who are. There are plenty of characters in the game, who are referenced directly, we should stick to those