[SPOILER] Plot Discussion Thread *Spoiler Alert*

[Integria]

No, the Machine makes it sound like he had gangrene and amputated his foot.

Words "gangrene" and "foot" never mentioned in the game's language file regarding to Mandus (as if he had/experienced it). Nor in any documents. Nor in notes.
Assumption [noun]:
The act of taking for granted, or supposing a thing without proof; a supposition; an unwarrantable claim.

I personally assumed it was yellow fever (Yellow Jack) since it'd make sense with regards to time and location, though I doubt it matters.

I've been pondering this for a while, and I figured I'd mention it. There are a lot of references to the 'end of the century' and the 'ringing in of a new century' in the game. We all seem to assume that the game takes place in 1899, considering the notes we've found.

At this point I'm tempted to point out that the 20th century doesn't actually start until the 1st of January 1901. Which leaves me wondering...

Is the game actually set a year later than we seem to be assuming, or is this simply a matter of free interpretation from the developers? Point being that if the clock is ringing in 'the new century' at the end of the game, we'd technically be hitting the 1st of January 1901.

Based on the notes, all the events happens at 31 Dec.

They do seem to happen the 31st of December, but I'm saying that according to the in-notes , they're happening the 31st of December 1900. In other words, the 'newest' note we have is over a year old. Changes the timeline somewhat.

[Fortigurn]

Words "gangrene" and "foot" never mentioned in the game's language file regarding to Mandus (as if he had/experienced it). Nor in any documents. Nor in notes.

Here are the words spoken by the Machine; 'Did it hurt to carve out the fevered flesh? Did it hurt to cut free the gangrenous foot?'. Are you saying these words appear nowhere in the game at all?

The Machine talks about something that may or may not happened or was experienced by the Mandus in the past...

But it does so in such a way as gives us no reason to doubt that it did happen, and that it was experienced by Mandus. Attempting to explain this away necessitates a string of unsubstantiated assumptions, as you've acknowledged.

[Kein]

Integria
I fixed my previous message, forgot the year. I can't see how it happens at 1900. There would be whole year of.. what? Where it gone? If the events in the game are real and not mind games of sick Mandus then during this year a lot of things should have happened. Someone would curious where is Mandus, where is professor A. that haven't returned yet from his visit to Oswald. A lot of things.

Here are the words spoken by the Machine; 'Did it hurt to carve out the fevered flesh? Did it hurt to cut free the gangrenous foot?'. Are you saying these words appear nowhere in the game at all?

Please re-read my post again, this time properly. I have nothing else to add and I see no reason to repeat myself. You can stick to your theory and/or play these games alone now, if you want, I don't mind (I have no interest in it, sorry).

[Fortigurn]

Please re-read my post again, this time properly.

I did read it. You claimed "Words "gangrene" and "foot" never mentioned in the game's language file regarding to Mandus (as if he had/experienced it). Nor in any documents. Nor in notes". But they are.

[Integria]

Integria
I fixed my previous message, forgot the year. I can't see how it happens at 1900. There would be whole year of.. what? Where it gone? If the events in the game are real and not mind games of sick Mandus then during this year a lot of things should have happened. Someone would curious where is Mandus, where is professor A. that haven't returned yet from his visit to Oswald. A lot of things.

Here are the words spoken by the Machine; 'Did it hurt to carve out the fevered flesh? Did it hurt to cut free the gangrenous foot?'. Are you saying these words appear nowhere in the game at all?

Please re-read my post again, this time properly. I have nothing else to add and I see no reason to repeat myself. You can stick to your theory and/or play these games alone now, if you want, I don't mind (I have no interest in it, sorry).

Well, yeah. That'd mean there's a full year where we have no idea what happened. There are two explanations:

A) There genuinely was a year of which we know nothing.
B) The developers simply weren't aware of when the turn of the century is.

I'm personally leaning towards B. The main reason I brought it up was to hear the thoughts of others, and potentially have a developer clarify it.

[Alardem]

If we seriously take into account the hypothesis that actual Machine (not the pig-slaughtering combine itself) existed, then even considering the possibility that every new victim of Pigs was later turned into a Pigmen -- Pig-army wouldn't have enough "manpower" to overthrow whole humanity. I think we would end up with a similar to WW2 situation, where Germany (in this case GB) under the control of Hitler (Machine) was world-wide threat. Still not enough power. Unless hatching of "an egg" would mean that something extraordinary, like Chtulhu arrival, happen.

That's the impression I got. In fact, the sound files for the temple indicate that one of the endings (where Mandus just sits and waits) has the Machine talk about 'hatching', and ends with "Let there be light." A nuclear explosion in 1900 isn't a big deal? What about what happens afterwards?

Also my point is that enough people were slaughtered/mutated by Mandus' creations to make London worse off than it was in our timeline, regardless of what he did. Killing himself doesn't take back all the lives he's destroyed.

[Kein]

Well, yeah. That'd mean there's a full year where we have no idea what happened. There are two explanations:
A) There genuinely was a year of which we know nothing.
B) The developers simply weren't aware of when the turn of the century is.
I'm personally leaning towards B. The main reason I brought it up was to hear the thoughts of others, and potentially have a developer clarify it.

Yeah, I think these were "artistic liberties". More symbolical meaning rather than factual (I honestly didn't even think about that until you mentioned this small detail).

If we seriously take into account the hypothesis that actual Machine (not the pig-slaughtering combine itself) existed, then even considering the possibility that every new victim of Pigs was later turned into a Pigmen -- Pig-army wouldn't have enough "manpower" to overthrow whole humanity. I think we would end up with a similar to WW2 situation, where Germany (in this case GB) under the control of Hitler (Machine) was world-wide threat. Still not enough power. Unless hatching of "an egg" would mean that something extraordinary, like Chtulhu arrival, happen.

That's the impression I got. In fact, the sound files for the temple indicate that one of the endings (where Mandus just sits and waits) has the Machine talk about 'hatching', and ends with "Let there be light." A nuclear explosion in 1900 isn't a big deal? What about what happens afterwards?

But that's too deus ex, too... primitive? I mean, I'm no writer but even i wouldn't go for such lame element in the story and definitely not Pinchebek.

A nuclear explosion in 1900 isn't a big deal? What about what happens afterwards?

A single nuclear explosion won't destroy the world and won't do much speaking globally. Take for example Hiroshima - they still live afterwards, Japan is there.



Personally, I'm not really fan of hypothesis that actual Machine exist the way we see it in the game, it has more contradictions and complex questions rather than "air loom" analog.

[Kein]

- Misc small text fixes in manuals and game.

Someone please check language file if these possible typos with year were updated?

[Alardem]

But that's too deus ex, too... primitive? I mean, I'm no writer but even i wouldn't go for such lame element in the story and definitely not Pinchebek.

What exactly's lame about it? And hey, it's not any more ridiculous than a bad guy who literally says "MOAR PIG" and "KILL THEM, MAH PIGGIES!" I like Pinchbeck's writing, but there's an endearing silliness to the premise of Pigs.

A nuclear explosion in 1900 isn't a big deal? What about what happens afterwards?

A single nuclear explosion won't destroy the world and won't do much speaking globally. Take for example Hiroshima - they still live afterwards, Japan is there.
[/quote]

I'm not saying that. I mean two things:

1. The heart of the British Empire getting inexplicably leveled by an explosion unlike ANYTHING humans had ever seen before. The fear of atomic power would be scarred into the public consciousness almost half a century before 1945. That would have been a major shock to history, and the imperial squabble that was the First World War would have been drastically different (if not worse).

Just think of this game as an alternate history, not literally 'what happened 113 years ago'.

2. All the death and slaughter that's already occurred is likely to have fucked up London. And that's not considering what will happen once people examine the Man-Pigs and uncover the secrets of Mandus' meat-factory. Just as he had salvaged the horrors of Brennenburg, he himself leaves a legacy of more terror to come.

Also, regarding the Machine - I myself think that the areas Mandus goes through at the end are drastically different in reality to how he perceives them. The last level's loading screen shows the grinder where meat is turned into sausages, yet Mandus sees a pyramid with the control chair at the top.

IMO, the Machine is alive and capable of growing itself underneath London. I rather doubt Mandus would have been able to secretly make all of his expansions - one of his journal entries near the end even says that he walks through areas which 'no man has ever set foot before'.

[Nobello]

- Misc small text fixes in manuals and game.

Someone please check language file if these possible typos with year were updated?

At least the note in the attic from the kids still says 1899 in-game.