Religion

**i3670** · 11-02-2013, 02:01 PM

(11-02-2013, 01:39 PM)BAndrew Wrote:

Logic is the best tool we have to understand the world. It is the only way we can arrive to the "truth".

There is no need for God and demons.

+ Read the next post

The problem with using logic is that our lives are illogical. We go about our daily life doing the same thing over and over. We go to school/work doing the same thing over and over again. You are stuck in a never-ending loop of meaningless actions. Living for tomorrow but tomorrow brings us closer to death, which is our enemy. Is this logical? Doing pointless actions until the end of our days.

**BAndrew** · 11-02-2013, 02:02 PM

(11-02-2013, 01:55 PM)TheWalshinator Wrote: So do you say that they do exist or that they don't exist?
You have no need for them, what is that supposed to mean exactly? Do you mean that they do exist and that we don't need them, or that they don't exist and we don't need them?
You say yourself that the Universe is eternal, and that man isn't eternal. Then what is the point of having an eternal Universe with no life?
You don't think that Christianity took baby steps too? Where did it start? When Jesus started preaching. Although I probably couldn't name the history books now I tried, but there are quite a few of them that will agree that there was a Jesus.
The Bible is based on documents that were written around the time of the events that took place, which adds more credibility to them.

Honestly I didn't understand your post.

I never said that the universe is eternal. What I said is that it COULD be.

Bolded: What am I saying is that I don't know if they exist.

**Bridge** · 11-02-2013, 02:03 PM

You will also find history books telling you that most of the New Testament's doctrine is based on mistranslated Hebrew from the Torah. The virgin birth, the idea of a divine messiah, the resurrection - all can be demonstrated to be misinterpretations of the Torah, pretty convincingly I might add. Then you can also find history books that say one of Jesus' brothers (I forget which one) started preaching his own version of Christianity after Jesus died which was almost completely ignored (that incidentally did not claim Jesus was divine or performed miracles), and Christianity only started to become widespread half a century later when people who didn't know him started making shit up.

**BAndrew** · 11-02-2013, 02:04 PM

(11-02-2013, 02:01 PM)i3670 Wrote: The problem with using logic is that our lives are illogical. We go about our daily life doing the same thing over and over. We go to school/work doing the same thing over and over again. You are stuck in a never-ending loop of meaningless actions. Living for tomorrow but tomorrow brings us closer to death, which is our enemy. Is this logical? Doing pointless actions until the end of our days.

Your whole post is contradictive. You are trying to convince me that logic is not a good guide to everyday life by using logic.

**TheWalshinator** · 11-02-2013, 02:06 PM

I don't understand your posts either. I'm getting as confused as you are. Meanwhile Satan is sitting back and laughing. I can hear him trying to get me to withdraw, but he has no power over me, so I won't.

**BAndrew** · 11-02-2013, 02:12 PM

(11-02-2013, 02:06 PM)TheWalshinator Wrote: I don't understand your posts either. I'm getting as confused as you are. Meanwhile Satan is sitting back and laughing. I can hear him trying to get me to withdraw, but he has no power over me, so I won't.

I thought my posts were quite straightforward.

Here is the idea:

You suggest God is necessary because the universe must have a cause.

But then where did God come from?

Case A: Another creator.
Case B: He is eternal. Then why not save a step and conclude that the universe is eternal?
Case C: He doesn't need a creator. Then why not save a step and conclude that the universe doesn't need a creator?

In either case there is no need for God.

You chose case B. And you said that the universe can't be eternal but you never explained why.

**i3670** · 11-02-2013, 02:14 PM

What I am saying is that you can't apply logic to our lives because they are absurd, illogical.

**BAndrew** · 11-02-2013, 02:16 PM

(11-02-2013, 02:14 PM)i3670 Wrote: What I am saying is that you can't apply logic to our lives because they are absurd, illogical.

Yes, but you just used LOGIC.

You are suggesting that logic can't be used in everyday life and you just used it.

**Bridge** · 11-02-2013, 02:25 PM

If you truly feel your life is a sequence of meaningless actions then find something to make it meaningful. We need to do certain things to survive - it's one of the conditions we must accept to be members of civilization and I don't think there's anything illogical about that. If you don't want the benefits of social security or owning possessions, then move into the wilderness and stop complaining about life being illogical.

**TheWalshinator** · 11-02-2013, 02:29 PM

The Universe was created. That is why. I know you are going to ask where my evidence is, but the only possible way to prove it was to go back to that moment and see it for yourself, and that we cannot do. But there is no evidence from science that says it is eternal, like there is no evidence to say that it isn't eternal, and most likely because of the aforementioned reasons.

Where did the concept of purpose come from? Certainly not from Man. And once again I raise Good and Evil; right and wrong. Also cannot be from Man. Man is smart, I'll give us that, but how can one person, or even multiple Men, come up with such concepts on their own?

Surely there must be some part of you that questions. I came here not only to speak, but to listen, and see what other people believe. I also came to defend my faith, and that I am doing right now, because I believe that He is worth fighting for, and that there is something that made us worth dying for.