Is Sarang a complete idiot?

[humanoid]

So you would not step into a teleporter, I guess?

Maybe, I would need to know more facts about the technology to decide for sure.

But based on what I know right know (your original body being literally taken apart and rebuilt elsewhere), I wouldn't.

On a side note, one thing that seems to be taken for granted by everyone so far is the flawlessness of (this) technology, being able to create an exact copy of yourself.

I mean it could just take a small miscalculation here or a malifunctioning piece of hardware there to create an abomination of yourself (be it mentally or physically), good luck fixing that after you just teleported yourself.

As for the copy being you, I think that depends if you believe there is a soul.

I guess you could call it a soul but I would prefer to call it individuality (I don't consider myself to be a religious person).

I wanted to express my thoughts about this here in greater detail but then stopped halfway because I realized that this discussion is starting to turn in circles, so I'll just leave it with what I said earlier - its for yourself to decide

[caffeine4671]

Step into a Star Trek Teleporter. You are teleported to the planet below. Did you die?

No, you didn't, because the fictional transporter doesn't copy and destroy your being. Unless logic didn't factor into presenting that question and the only reason you said it was to give validation to fanciful thinking. That and a very loose definition of death. I get the idea of it and the morality of it. Giving a new version of humanity hope and a chance is a noble cause, but it's not magic.

That's why Catherine Chun was so calm about everything, because she new exactly who she was as far as identity went and what the project entailed for humanity as a whole. As well as what "she" (her copy) would get herself into.

Tl;dr: Copying != a special phantasmagorical event where you transcend your body. It appears that way for your clone, but you're shit out of luck.

[Bodertz]

Step into a Star Trek Teleporter. You are teleported to the planet below. Did you die?

No, you didn't, because the fictional transporter doesn't copy and destroy your being. Unless logic didn't factor into presenting that question and the only reason you said it was to give validation to fanciful thinking. That and a very loose definition of death. I get the idea of it and the morality of it. Giving a new version of humanity hope and a chance is a noble cause, but it's not magic.

That's why Catherine Chun was so calm about everything, because she new exactly who she was as far as identity went and what the project entailed for humanity as a whole. As well as what "she" (her copy) would get herself into.

Tl;dr: Copying != a special phantasmagorical event where you transcend your body. It appears that way for your clone, but you're shit out of luck.

The transporter disintegrates your body and rebuilds you at the other end. I don't think no longer existing is that unreasonable a definition of death. Does the transporter need to use the original atoms that made you up, or will any that fit do? If any will do, then the transporter could create another you out of completely different atoms at a different destination. Are you the real you because you have the original atoms? What if the transporter made both of you out of half original and half new atoms? Are you half dead? Are you in two bodies? Where are you? How many wires do we have to replace before the Chun we pulled out isn't the same Chun we plugged back in?

The girl who killed herself in her bed, she died. She is not on the ARK. Sarang, too, did not get on the ARK. Except they both did, because their copies did. Their experiences diverged, though, when they killed themselves. Sarang was wrong if he thought he would replaces the scan with himself when he killed himself.

The reason I don't find his view that unreasonable even though he was wrong if he believed that is because I don't think there is only one you. When you go to sleep, your brain hasn't made you yet. You aren't there. When your brain creates you again and you dream/wake up, why are you the same you who went to sleep? You were gone. Are you the same you just because the same brain created you again?

I don't think that matters. My brain is just a machine that gives rise to me. I die whenever it stops making me. And another me is created whenever it or anything else creates me.

[EnDash]

i'm going to take a less technical/hypothetical view and simply say, it was his way to cope with his impending death.

imagine being stranded under the ocean with limited food and water, everyone on the surface you know and love is dead, and the best solution is a 50% chance you'd get into a fake virtual reality.

and lets say you lose the bet and don't get inside, what awaits you then? a slow death? everyone going insane? getting killed by robots that talk like your former friends?

so you choose suicide, but you can't admit that to yourself, it's admitting defeat and losing hope. instead you create this imaginary solution where when you die you actually get into the ark. it even turns into a cult. you don't realize or care that it doesn't make sense because the alternative is the worst possible thing. it's easy and magical and solves everything.

it's why i kinda wished we'd get to see more of simon's actions after the ark launch, did he choose to kill himself? did he searched for another solution? i guess it's up for the player to decide.

[jamman39]

i'm going to take a less technical/hypothetical view and simply say, it was his way to cope with his impending death.

imagine being stranded under the ocean with limited food and water, everyone on the surface you know and love is dead, and the best solution is a 50% chance you'd get into a fake virtual reality.

and lets say you lose the bet and don't get inside, what awaits you then? a slow death? everyone going insane? getting killed by robots that talk like your former friends?

so you choose suicide, but you can't admit that to yourself, it's admitting defeat and losing hope. instead you create this imaginary solution where when you die you actually get into the ark. it even turns into a cult. you don't realize or care that it doesn't make sense because the alternative is the worst possible thing. it's easy and magical and solves everything.

it's why i kinda wished we'd get to see more of simon's actions after the ark launch, did he choose to kill himself? did he searched for another solution? i guess it's up for the player to decide.

Exactly, i think the point of Simon's ending is to give you a small taste of how desperate Sarang and the others must have felt when they heard they could live forever on the ark.

It must have sounded so amazing the first time they all heard the idea, but I bet the first time someone went into the Pilot's seat, got scanned by Catherine, then went back to their normal, dreary, ultimately pointless routine it would have been an enormous hit to everybody's morale.

[Kein]

Or did he just not take Computer Science classes as a kid? Or anything remotely based on real science for that matter? If he did, he'd know that cut-and-paste and copy-and-paste both copy the original.

He and his followers should've changed their motto to "We put our faith in the reality of cut-n-pastey!", seeing as they tried doing that IRL.

I guess you've skipped all the notes in the game and just went through it? Sarang explicitly mentioned that a copy will be identical or very close to the original right after the process and/or short after. But with time the difference in experience will alter the development of their conspicuousness, of their self, thus there won't be any more two similar copies.

[caffeine4671]

Or did he just not take Computer Science classes as a kid? Or anything remotely based on real science for that matter? If he did, he'd know that cut-and-paste and copy-and-paste both copy the original.

He and his followers should've changed their motto to "We put our faith in the reality of cut-n-pastey!", seeing as they tried doing that IRL.

I guess you've skipped all the notes in the game and just went through it? Sarang explicitly mentioned that a copy will be identical or very close to the original right after the process and/or short after. But with time the difference in experience will alter the development of their conspicuousness, of their self, thus there won't be any more two similar copies.

No, I've read all the notes. He then starts babbling about the reality of continuity and other pseudo-religious nonsense. That's probably the only bit of his ramblings that make sense; as far as two copies having different experiences and eventually separating from each other.

I mean, as long as his copy knows 'my other self killed himself at theta nd I'm actually a copy, not him, he's dead' and he has no illusions then I guess he's an okay guy. Like I said, that's why I like Catherine as a character because despite her questionable opinions on sentience and treating her fellow robots, she knew exactly what she was getting into with copying consciousnesses onto the ARK.

[Kein]

Or did he just not take Computer Science classes as a kid? Or anything remotely based on real science for that matter? If he did, he'd know that cut-and-paste and copy-and-paste both copy the original.

He and his followers should've changed their motto to "We put our faith in the reality of cut-n-pastey!", seeing as they tried doing that IRL.

I guess you've skipped all the notes in the game and just went through it? Sarang explicitly mentioned that a copy will be identical or very close to the original right after the process and/or short after. But with time the difference in experience will alter the development of their conspicuousness, of their self, thus there won't be any more two similar copies.

I mean, as long as his copy knows 'my other self killed himself at theta nd I'm actually a copy, not him, he's dead' and he has no illusions then I guess he's an okay guy.

That's kinda the idea, i think. Well, may be he is not that clear on this as Cath but his strong position guarantees him he will never let anyone make a another copy after he is in Ark. Or, at least, a copy without "original" (it was made from) destruction.