[spoiler] um...Could we not just have come back for him?

**WALP** · 10-16-2015, 01:49 AM

Initially the scene where you must choose whether or not to kill Simon-2 made sense. You had a clear dilemma:
1. Let him wake up lonely, and left behind by you and Cath who have gone to phi.
2. Kill him

Both of which are not exactly pleasant options. With this mindset I chose to drain the battery of Simon-2, but in retrospect I think I may have misunderstood option number 1.

Let's say we let him live, and then skip forward to after the ark was launched into space. Could we not just take the elevator back up to him, making him not lonely? in fact we could be back before he even woke up, since Catherine put him to sleep for a few days. So now it's:

1. Let him wait for you to come back. Then you can figure out what to do from there, or just have a collective suicide or something.
2. kill him.

Even if it end's up with him having to die as well in option number 1. at least then he wont have to die lonely, or being deceived.

I can understand based on his reaction to the ending, that Simon could easily have misunderstood option 1, but Catherine clearly knew she would still be here after launching, so why was she so panicked about it? is this a plot hole? or is there some unknown bad aspect of this option that I am missing?

**GrAVit** · 10-16-2015, 01:56 AM

Well, she would've had to see Simon-2 suffer after waking up in confusion and learning that they're all doomed. I'm sure she wouldn't have wanted him or herself to experience that, especially because he would've probably started blaming her for everything, just like Simon-3 did.

**WALP** · 10-16-2015, 02:05 AM

(10-16-2015, 01:56 AM)GrAVit Wrote: Well, she would've had to see Simon-2 suffer after waking up in confusion and learning that they're all doomed. I'm sure she wouldn't have wanted him or herself to experience that, especially because he would've probably started blaming her for everything, just like Simon-3 did.

It's definitely the explanation that makes the most sense, but her angry reaction to Simon-3
after launching the Ark, implies she thought Simon-3 understood the copy concept by now, so if Simon-3 can deal with, why should Simon-2 not be able to?

**GrAVit** · 10-16-2015, 02:16 AM

(10-16-2015, 02:05 AM)WALP Wrote:
(10-16-2015, 01:56 AM)GrAVit Wrote: Well, she would've had to see Simon-2 suffer after waking up in confusion and learning that they're all doomed. I'm sure she wouldn't have wanted him or herself to experience that, especially because he would've probably started blaming her for everything, just like Simon-3 did.

It's definitely the explanation that makes the most sense, but her angry reaction to Simon-3
after launching the Ark, implies she thought Simon-3 understood the copy concept by now, so if Simon-3 can deal with, why should Simon-2 not be able to?

Well.. it's a copy of Simon himself after all. Giving Simon-3 the choice to decide what to do to Simon-2 would be the correct thing to do. If Catherine insisted on not killing Simon-2, Simon-3 would've definitely questioned that, which is when she would've had to explain that he will technically remain on Pathos-II and that there is no salvation for him. That might have caused Simon-3 to freak out at her like in the ending and not cooperate with her, so that the ARK project would've failed. She probably didn't want to take that risk.

**WALP** · 10-16-2015, 03:06 AM

(10-16-2015, 02:16 AM)GrAVit Wrote:
(10-16-2015, 02:05 AM)WALP Wrote:
(10-16-2015, 01:56 AM)GrAVit Wrote: Well, she would've had to see Simon-2 suffer after waking up in confusion and learning that they're all doomed. I'm sure she wouldn't have wanted him or herself to experience that, especially because he would've probably started blaming her for everything, just like Simon-3 did.

It's definitely the explanation that makes the most sense, but her angry reaction to Simon-3
after launching the Ark, implies she thought Simon-3 understood the copy concept by now, so if Simon-3 can deal with, why should Simon-2 not be able to?

Well.. it's a copy of Simon himself after all. Giving Simon-3 the choice to decide what to do to Simon-2 would be the correct thing to do. If Catherine insisted on not killing Simon-2, Simon-3 would've definitely questioned that, which is when she would've had to explain that he will technically remain on Pathos-II and that there is no salvation for him. That might have caused Simon-3 to freak out at her like in the ending and not cooperate with her, so that the ARK project would've failed. She probably didn't want to take that risk.

I can literally give the exact same reply to this

It's definitely the explanation that makes the most sense, but her angry reaction to Simon-3
after launching the Ark, implies she thought Simon-3 understood the copy concept by now, so if Simon-3 can deal with, why should Simon-2 not be able to?

The way it is written implies Cath Launched the ark, without thinking she lied to Simon. She did not even apoligize or anything, she was just like "it worked", and got pissed when he still did not understand.

Hence in Cath's mind, why would Simon-3 panic over something she thought he already knew? and if Simon-3 would not, then why should Simon-2?

**GrAVit** · 10-16-2015, 03:47 AM

I'm not sure if I get what you mean, but if she really thought Simon already understood the copy concept, I'm sure she only thought so after Simon-2 was copied (because Simon-3 got to experience that in practice), so Simon-2 would still surely be confused and mad about it.

**TiManGames** · 10-16-2015, 06:28 AM

The Omnitiol is broken. Simon-2 cannot even get out of the omega section, and if course he cannot activate the climber again.

**Filizitas** · 10-16-2015, 11:16 AM

Its not sure that he cant get out. Maybe he finds another tool? Or the door auto unlocked?
And there is plensy woman in omicron... theyre a little bit bitchy and winey but well he should get along XD

**Romulator** · 10-16-2015, 12:38 PM

(10-16-2015, 11:16 AM)Filizitas Wrote: Its not sure that he cant get out. Maybe he finds another tool? Or the door auto unlocked?
And there is plensy woman in omicron... theyre a little bit bitchy and winey but well he should get along XD

In reality, Simon-2 is stuck. There's no tools for him to use since we took the only Omni-Tool, Catherine locked the door to the Screamer, and Simon-2 cannot sustain the pressure of the Abyss (or perhaps even call the elevator).

He is, essentially, screwed.

**WALP** · 10-16-2015, 01:00 PM

(10-16-2015, 03:47 AM)GrAVit Wrote: I'm not sure if I get what you mean, but if she really thought Simon already understood the copy concept, I'm sure she only thought so after Simon-2 was copied (because Simon-3 got to experience that in practice), so Simon-2 would still surely be confused and mad about it.

Yes but she only just saw how Simon-3 reacted to it. Sure he got mad but he could definitely deal with it, and if the option is between killing Simon-2 or making him mad as well then I think it's pretty black and white what to do.

About Simon-2 being stuck comments I think that is pretty obvious, but it does not matter because Simon-3 and Catherine could come back for him. Of course the event of Catherine's suicide busting the omnitool complicates things, but even then I am doubting that how planned that suicide was, and it could very well have been delayed so they could come back for Simon-2 first. Even given it is impossible for a scenario where Catherine does not kill herself after ark launch, it would be really weird if there was not a single corpse in phi/alpha/tau/nearby abyss carrying an omnitool, since those are required to enter stations in the first place.

In the end I can only see it being explained by simple confusion, but had they been more aware there's no doubt coming back for Simon-2 would have black and white been the best option.