Graphics and physics engines, wich offer what i want?

[the dark side]

sorry, as interesting as your counter arguments are Aldigheri, i have decided the game will not have a gun limit, and that is not going to be changed, they seriously annoy me, and as it is my IP, im going to make the game that i want, and dont get saying "that is too selfish to work" because it isnt, making his own game has served Hideo Kojima Beautifully for years. so it can serve for me as well.

also, ive got half life 2, and i dont remember ever being forced to throw down a weapon to pick up another, ive had all 12 on me many times, are you sure you've got the right game? its counterstrike and L4d that have the gun limit, wich is why i dont own them, because i dont find them entertaining.

@ Hirnwirbel, as i said, i, personally, dont have any coding skills unfortunatly, i dont have the intellect required.

if i am going to do a gameplay prototype, and i think i am going to need to in order to hook a Publisher (ive got devs queing round the block, but, no publisher, no ones got the guts..)as its been a LONG time since this kind of game was made, 2006 at the latest, then i am going to need to borrow a crew of modders who are willing to act professionally, will not argue with my gameplay mechanic decisions, and can make a damn good job of it , you dont attract publishers with badly made demos.

I would rather my team (if i ever get one...) used cryengine3 not only because its cheaper than UDK ($100 single payment for CE3 plays $500 and 25% of the proftis for UDK), but because unreal 3 is not a good engine to use these days, its way out of date, it cant handle anti aliasing, its textures are muddy and slow to load, it cant handle full body awarness (required for TWO of the innovations my IP has even in game one) and its Not compatible with GHOUL 2.0, sure its harder to programme for CE3, but its a better engine, also, even i know that if you want a good game, you've got to put hard work in, if people want to be lazy and just fart a game out, then they can go work for treyarch for all i care. if necessary, ill have the team use source engine, as it can do most of what i want... but, its waay out of date...

Dont worry though, i know how important gameplay is, as i peresonally beleieve that gameplay is everything, the only reason i have baught graphics up is because the game is going to be PC only, its a condition of the IP's Copyright lease, and pc games sell on there graphics.

I know full well that if the core gameplay is bad, the game sucks, im not going to do a duke nukem forever here and focuss on the "cool additions" rather than the core gameplay. i know there is no point in having a beautifully rendered URAL truck if it feels like its made of feathers to drive, it needs to be programmed so its easy-ish to drive to make the game fun, but still has enough weight and recacitrance to it in order to still fell like an Actual URAL 6x6 truck. same as there is no point in having loads of authentic enemy uniform models and FUCE("Faction Unit Correct Equipment", ill explain that in more detail if people want as i dont mind companies knicking it as more FPS games need it!) weaponry sets, if the AI is so dumb it cant handle doors or ignores hand grenades... (cough...any modern shooter...cough).

ive already decided that for AI i want to ressurect valves old "Factored AI" system. in wich percentage levels within certain factors effect how the AI will react. those programmed factors being, Intellect, Training, Agression, and Experience. for example, lets take experience. an Ai unit with a low number of programmed experience points is going to be more likely to "flake out" (panic and make mistakes) in combat, and is liable to follow training to the letter, meaning very basic "CHAAAAARGE" lemming tactics if there training level is low, were as an Ai unit with high Experience is not only going to bne unfased by supression fire, but they will use advanced tactics such as throwing your grenades back at you, supress and flank, and may even leave booby-traps. however, as even the most Powerfull gaming PCs are limited in what they can do, Ai is programmed via Unit Class rather than individual AI, with only BOSS clas AI's getting unique AI coding.

Again, As examples, the "Afghan militia" class units have low to mediocre intellect points, virtually non existant Training points, SKy High Agression levels, and near zero experience, resulting in an AI that is innacurate, prone to charging, and liable to make mistakes, (cannon fodder..) were as a "Raptor mercenary" unit class is likely to have a Strong Intellect setting, Full Points (100) for training, Sky High Agression Levels, and Full Experience points, resulting in An AI that is smart, Accurate, will use advanced tactics against you, and will need to be dealt with tactically if you are going to come out of the battle without taking some serious blows to your Health and Armour levels.

also, all my concept art and level maps are in LITERALLY "pencil and paper" format, theres no programmed assets or levels yet. so they are ready to be used once the CORE FPS experience is balanced and correct and to my standards (Wich are very high) so that the developer who gets the IP doesn't end up wasting time that could be spent debugging the game code to ensure it isnt launched full of glitches, doing pencil and paper level and art sketches that should have been done before the Ip was even copywrited!

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@ Hirnwirbel, as i said, i, personally, dont have any coding skills unfortunatly, i dont have the intellect required.

if i am going to do a gameplay prototype, and i think i am going to need to in order to hook a Publisher (ive got devs queing round the block, but, no publisher, no ones got the guts..)as its been a LONG time since this kind of game was made, 2006 at the latest, then i am going to need to borrow a crew of modders who are willing to act professionally, will not argue with my gameplay mechanic decisions, and can make a damn good job of it , you dont attract publishers with badly made demos.

Yes - no publisher will even consider financing you if you don't have at least a prototype. Hell, most wouldn't even publish your project if it was finished, because they prefer devs with experience and established IPs. Just saying man, its a harsh world out there...

Anyway. So basically you want to have the job of Game Designer and Vision Keeper in your team... mind you, there's nothing wrong with that - if you're a good Game Designer. I can't know if you are, and it is not my job to judge that. All I know is that there are many people out there who underestimate the amount of skill and knowledge that job requires.

So just saying - Game Design is not just about having some neat ideas and telling the team what to do. Its also not just about thinking up nice stories and settings. It has many different forms and specialisations, but first and foremost it is a form of system design. And that is hard as hell.
A rule of thumb I've heard from professional Game Designers is this: If you're able to create a board- or cardgame that's fun and engaging, you'll probably also be good at designing other games. If not - well then you may have misinterpreted the job description...

Well, basically, all I'm saying is this: With the way you're presenting your project to potential developers, you'll have to make sure that you don't come across as that lazy guy who let's others do the hard work of making his ideas come true. (I'm not saying you ARE - just be careful, 'kay? ) If you want to keep the policy of "my decisions are law, because its my project", well you better make sure you earn and keep the respect of your team by doing actual game design work.

Unless of course you're paying a bunch of freelancers. In that case you can freely decide what they should provide you with.

[Kreekakon]

Well, basically, all I'm saying is this: With the way you're presenting your project to potential developers, you'll have to make sure that you don't come across as that lazy guy who let's others do the hard work of making his ideas come true. (I'm not saying you ARE - just be careful, 'kay? ) If you want to keep the policy of "my decisions are law, because its my project", well you better make sure you earn and keep the respect of your team by doing actual game design work.

Speaking from personal experience, although all I've really done are Flash games, and mods, working on your own vision of a game to realize it is infinitely more satisfying than having it ALL done by other people. This way not only are you working/helping to complete it, but are also sculpting your own vision with your own hands, which will most likely represent what you set out to create most faithfully in the first place.

I doubt this can apply well at larger projects, but the above is why I prefer to work on my work myself, and only request help for things I cannot do, or things that have quality which are objectively judged which don't have much to do with the creativity of a game, for example generic background models/items.

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Yes, the smaller the project, the more the different departments "blur" together... I've met Producers who also tested and balanced the game, Game Designers who coded stuff, coders who made UI graphics and artists who also did the whole project planning. Its the beauty of doing small projects - you get to do so many different things that it never gets boring and you can really build a connection to your game

[the dark side]

hello. i am really gratefull for all the concern and advice it really makes me feel appreciated.

yes, ill definatly see if i can get one of my interested devs to make a prototype, if not, well, ill get some freelance modders in, now, i don't have an issue with not having experienced devs, due to legal reasons i CANNOT tell you who is looking, but i can give some bits on there experience, one has been around since 1985, another spawned from 3d realms and has made several award winning fps games, one created, under there old name, 2 of the greatest FPS games of all time!, one is a champion of the indie FPS industry, and one has 2 award winning spy games under there belt from the early 2000's. the big issue i have with the publishers is that my game is a BRAND NEW IP, and its a niche market game owing to the fact it doesnt have MP, its Exclusive to PC, and its has "throwback" gameplay. most publishers want "modern shooters" like Battlefield 3, were as my game is closer to SOF II with the "recoil simulation" turned OFF crossed with the Stealth of NOLF 1 (including levels were you are Not allowed to hurt anyone, not even punch them!).

ill show a vid, now, this is from youtube, its of SOFIi, and the game files have been modded by the owner (the m1911 has a supressor it doesnt have in the Stock gameplay, and the incorrect Springfeild M3a1 "grease gun" of standard has been replaced with a Faction Correct AK47, annoyingly though, the user has also replaced the brilliant Frank Bica scored "O.S.T" with some muck by "the prodigy", shame on them.) my own SOF II is a standard "gold edition" with no mods, so its not me playing, but the video pretty much shows HOW my game plays gameplay wise in a Shootout Situation.





ignore the animation though please, my game is different as it has the charachter always "rack" the gun (pull the charging handle), even on a mid-clip reload, were as mullins only racks the ak47 and not the m1911 in the video.


well, i dont know if im a decent game designer or not, i wont know unless i ever get this one published, but i think i could have what it takes. i can create a really engaging story, ive had some short stories published in magazines in the past, and i got a Penquin young writers award when i was in high school. i do a Lot of dungeons and dragons "game master" stuff, so im used to telling a story in a game environment, and ive done some pretty good maps for timesplitters 3 in the past, (got an award for one, but wasnt hired by FR because i was too young (only 14!), and by the time i was old enough, free radical had become crytek uk and i REFUSE to make "modern" gameplay games like Evil Alliance demands they make so i sadly had to politely decline) so, i think i might have the chops to make a decent one. i dont think ill ever be as good as someone like Sam Houser, John Romero, or whoever the mysterious "Fork Parker" really is, the true great game designers, but, ill settle for decent.

now, dont worry Hirnwirbel, i am not lazy, the only things i am passing on are the thingas i simply just CANNOT do myself, but i am more than willing to get stuck in with a little training. like i said, i dont know how to code, but, if there isnt TOO much maths (as im not very good at maths), im willing to learn, you see, i am fascinated by the whole game production process, so im not just going to sit back and leave it to others, because i want to get stuck in so i can learn more about how games are made, I can do texture modelling, ive done it before, and ive got an obsessive eye for detail wich will certainly help, i'm a fair voice actor, i can do a very good EX KGB general, so im willing to do Voice over for that kind of charachter, and ive already done prototype "pencil and Paper" maps for all the games levels wich should help save some extra time in development.

like you kreekaron, the only things i wont work on are the things i simply Cannot work on by myself, the main things i cannot do myself, and will NEED to pass on to others are the concept art, as my pencil and paper drawing skills are meerly average, but, ive got a mate at deviantart helping there, i cant do the gun-list myself because of the UK laws, so i need a professional weapons Expert there, and i need a true Professional as well, and for the following reasons. 1. to ensure all enemy units have the correct loadout for there unit and factional alliance, F.U.C.E. as i call it. Factional Unit Correct Equipment, and seeing as i think more FPS games need it as i cant think of any that dont suffer from what i call F.U.I.E., Factional Unit Incorrect Equipment, i dont mind explaining in more detail what F.U.C.E. and F.U.I.E are. 2. i want to do LIVE FIRE weapon testing with ballastic dummies, that needs a professional Weapons Expert, as that way the dev team will be able to use the dummies to ensure the GHOUL system renders bullet impact properly, and so we can set up microphones on the range to get Live Fire Weapon noises for third person firing sounds (when the enemy is firing) and a mike attatched to the expert for Live Fire First Person firing sounds (when the player is firing) for truly authentic firearm sounds (wich pc gamers crave!) and 3,. it allows us access to model REAL Military and Customised "Mercenary type" weapons, for 100% accurate texture modelling, as many modern shooters use Airsoft Guns as the Model basis, the textures are often miles off, and i can spot it. as i said, i dont know how to code yet, so ill have to pass that over as well, the rest, well, i can do the rest personally.

oh, and ive already decided that, because i want the devs to focuss purely on the campaign I am going to do the UI personally.

i am certainly going to do the playtesting myself hirnwirbel, as i want to make sure the game is up to MY standards, wich are pretty elite! and the only way i can do that is to play it along with the dev team! it also means that I will be able to play the game, PERSONALLY and PROPERLY at game shows, wich ALWAYS leaves gamers impressed as it shows the Development head cares not about money, or image, but the GAME and His fellow gamers, as it shows them the development head is a gamer, one of them!.

its my game, and i really care about it, ive stuck with it throuugh 5 years of publisher denials! so i want to be involved with is as much as possible.

by the way, can you help here hirnwirbel?, can you explain balancing to me in SINGLE PLAYER terms,( the game has NO multiplayer until game 2, and then its co-op and not competative, like NOLF 2, its a lease condition) and how i can acheive it without Nerfing the guns, there is nothing worse than picking up an Ak47 and finding it has all the power of a pop gun (real 7.65x32 soviet FMJ is powerfull enough to rip a limb off!), or loading up a Makarov 9x18 Chambered PP19 ("bizon 2") to find its only got 55 rounds (instead of 64) because the guns have been nerfed to be fairer in competative MP, the only real nerf ill keep is the "extended reloading animations" because, i think they look COOL! and so do many other gamers, so that will help boost sales.

now, ive noticed some people are hating on the game becasue they think its going to be a WAR game,. it has been described by the haters as "a horrible sh**storm of bullets and rockets, battlefield3 with serious sam's gameplay" (although i would LOVE to play that!, i can see why others would hate it!). well, that assumption is wrong, my game is NOT a war game, ill tell you what it really is in another post, i would say now, but,. this is starting to become too big a post again.

ciao for now. TDS.

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..........well then, have fun and keep us updated on your results.

Alas, I cannot help you with the balancing. I'm not a game designer myself - which is also why I said I couldn't judge if you are ^^

[darkely]

and as it is my IP, im going to make the game that i want,

With that attitude you are going to end up making a game you love and not a game others will like.

EDIT: please note I am not trying to be rude by saying that but I am just telling you what I think could happen

[the dark side]

@ Darkerley, that attitude has worked more than well enough for Hideo Kojima over the years, because he knows his target market pretty much wants the same as what he wants, sure, sometimes it backfires (cough, kazunuri yamauchi, gran turismo 5, cough!) but only if you let ambition rule over technoligical abilities.

Anyway, i know full well what people want and dont want from there games, as Business and Marketing was a mandatory subject at the high school i went to, i know for a fact there is a mass call on PC for FPS games that Return to the "Gold" (wolf 3d-Half Life) and Silver (Half Life-Halo) Era's of the genre, its only console that want to keep with the "dark era" (Halo-next games crash), seeing as the game is PC only however, i can aim at what PC gamers want, wich is pretty much what i want.

If people want regenerating health or gun limits, or expanding crosshairs, or the whole campaing to be a tutorial, thats fine, they can go and play pretty much any FPS on console, they are not my target market, so i am not going to cater for them, because i know having any ONE of those elements will anger my target market, and i wont get sales.

If you try and please "all of the people" you get a "Bulletstorm" or a "Duke Nukem Forever", a game that FLOPS, because it ANGERS the old school because of all the "console kid dumb down" stuff (the hardcores own words), and you dont get the younger gamers anyway because your game "ain' realiztik dawg" (a genuine youtube comment on bulletstorm!) and doesnt have "Call Of Duty 29" or "Battlefield 10" written on the box.

you can't please all of the people, because there is simply just to much of a gulf between the hardcore and what we see as "them console kiddiez", and both sides HATE everything the other side likes in a game, so you have got to be ballsy and hard nosed, you have got to aim at a target market, and do everything to please them, and tell the other markets to get lost, because if you try to appease more than one market, your just going to anger both and get no sales what so ever. just like happened to Bulletstorm and Duke Nukem Forever.

i've chosen my target market, Experienced PC gamers who are yearning for a HD era answer to games like Soldier of Fortune, No One Lives Forever, Chaser, Project IGI, Sin, etc. in short, people who want the same as i want, wich my calculations suggest is about 3 million sales,. more than enough to not only give any publisher who has the nadgers to take a risk on the IP there money back with profit, but also guarantee a sequal (wich is guaranteed at 1.5 million sales). if people dont like that and want a game thats more "modern" and Battlefield like, then, fine, they can go and toddle off back to there world war 3 "modern shooter" rubbish, and can leave me alone, because im not going to ruin my game for my target market to meet there tastes, as that will mean i will have a game that is basically salesproof (ie, impossible to sell) becasue it will anger my target market, and wont sell to the newbies either because its not one of 2 certain WW3 franchises.

theres still plenty of realism there, wich might entice a few younger gamers, seeing as its set in c21, uses a lot of real world weapons (combined with the odd prototype and a lot of heavilly upgraded models), and has some pretty realistic animations (double magazine smack, trigger discipline, Full Body Awareness, etc) but i severly doubt they will like the gameplay, but i dont really care as they are not the target audience.

EDIT: sorry if some of that comes across as me being a total B'Stard! but, gaming is a business, you've got to be a b'stard to be in business, thank you for your concern Darkely, it is appreciated, but dont worry, i know what my target audience wants, so im sure they will like it. and as its, as said, a good 3 million strong at least, that is More than sustainable, especially for a game that is 1,. niche market, and 2, only available on PC, Windows first with a Mac port a few months after to ensure the Mac version doesnt lose any quality compared to the windows version.

@Hirnwirbel, thanks, i will! heck, to be ultra nice, when i get the tech demo made, i may even youtube it on here. really SHOW how progress is going.

@all. ok, so i want to explain more about the game, both what "FUIE" and "FUCE" stand for, and what the game actually IS!, i promise you, its not Battlefield 3 with the gameplay of serious sam, like some people think it is, because, as much as i would LOVE that, i know that a million others wouldnt and that is no good for sales! but, well, i dont know what to explain first, so what do people want to know, what FUIE and FUCE are? or what the game actually IS?

TDS.

[darkely]

@ Darkerley, that attitude has worked more than well enough for Hideo
Kojima over the years, because he knows his target market pretty much
wants the same as what he wants, sure, sometimes it backfires (cough,
kazunuri yamauchi, gran turismo 5, cough!) but only if you let ambition
rule over technoligical abilities.

Reality check: you are not Hideo Kojima and [no offense intended] you'll be lucky if you ever get close to the level of Frictional Games (which is not all that high in comparison to others).

[the dark side]

of course, i know that i am no were near Kojima-San, i dont need a reality check, Hideo is a true great, there are only a few people who are close. i just used him as an example, because Kojima-San knows that, if you target an audience who likes what you like, you can get away with making the game that you want, and people will still like it!

I am just following Kojima-San's principle of looking for a target audience who likes what you like, make the game YOU want to make, and then aim it at that audience. it allows you to make what you want, and still get a good amount of sales. there is no harm in following the priciples of a Master.

i know i wont ever be a great, heck, i dont WANT to be a great, being a Great sucks, because you've got to live up to that legend, and that is often impossible, as many fallen greats can attest. no, i would be quite happy meerly being decent.

also, dont compare me to frictional please, im in a different Genre to them. its like trying to compare pasta and Ferrari's. they have nothing in common except both come from italy.

no offense taken. just dont go that far again please. now, are you going to ask some questions about the game please? i cannot tell you the story, but i can explain its gameplay and some of its tricks, such as FUCE, as i dont mind other companies cloning those, as well, i think it will help the FPS genre survive when modern FPS looses all popularity.