[SPOILER] Plot Discussion Thread *Spoiler Alert*

[Alardem]

Yeah, I'm on the camp that says that the Stone Egg is a separate entity from the Orb.

[Lazoriss]

Hummm...

I do think that all orbs are similar. There's apparently a lot of them scattered across the world. Many were either worshiped as Gods or locked away.

BUT. Both Justine and TDD have or mention orbs. There's also Johann Weyer. What an interesting character, too. He apparently amassed a shit ton of these orbs and used them to travel though time and space. He was also an accomplished alchemist who in one of the Amnesia short stories used what appears to be alchemy or magic against a Shadow. As for Guardians, it does appear that most or all Orbs have one. In the Amnesia-verse, I can think of 3 separate orbs that had them. All three Guardians also are described very similarly. Red light, the bloated mass of flesh, the otherworldly roars...
Anyways, Weyer is also strange in that not only did he collect orbs in mass, but had an uncanny ability in controlling them without appearing to have any... adverse reactions. Not only did he seem to remain sane, but used the orbs instead of being used BY them. Seriously, this guy is a BAMF and I would love to see him as a prevalent character if there was another Amnesia game sometime in the future. U_U

As far as the object in AMFP being an orb or not... I'm still convinced it is an Orb. ^^; They appear so often in the Amnesia-verse, there's really no doubt for me there. The reason it's refereed to as an "egg" throughout the story, I think, is to have it serve a more symbolic role for the particular plot. This game is friggen teeming with metaphors and straight up symbolism, so it's not surprising that the Orb have a different name. It is an Egg because it suggests the nature of the object so well. Like... there's something alive inside it and, given the proper care, it will grow and eventually hatch. ta-da~

Daddy, daddy! If you put your ear to it, you can hear the sea!

Blam. More powerful symbolism. What does the word "sea" mean to you? The sea is huge, powerful and mysterious. The writers of this game were very particular with their choice of words and nothing is put to waste. You can hear the ocean in the orb, guys. ._.


And yes, pretttty sure Mandus touched the orb (there was a note/loading screen that told of him cradling the egg in his coat), but also very interesting point in the children having also touched it, and even having touched it first. I didn't notice anything about the twins having a reaction to the orb, other than the sea thing and wanting to take it home. I mean, yeah, they heard the sea, but it didn't seem to do much to them. But it does put a nasty itch in my mind. There's a huge reason as to why there would be TWIN children and TWIN orb shards. It was definitely on purpose, and again I'll bring up the note about the twins metaphorically sharing a soul. :| The heart/orb shards being the same thing at the end of the game... What does it mean, though???


Also, a sort of unrelated tidbit. When Mandus sacrificed his children Aztec style on the Temple steps, I'm also fairly sure he carved out and ATE THEIR HEARTS. 8U This is also suggested in that both animations of the dead children show them pulling out their hearts and offering it to you. Mandus will compare himself to Aztec figures in the game, and the ritual described in notes involved consuming the heart... I mean, if it's true that he ate the hearts; what the actual fuck, Mandus?

[Alardem]

I actually didn't like what little we hear of Weyer - the idea of some random human somehow being able to completely negate the inhuman powers of the universe made Daniel's experience feel less impressive.

But all three Amnesia games feature a protagonist under the thrall of some supernatural force. The Stone Egg drove Mandus to create a living slaughterhouse, the Soapstone made Justine a sadist, and Daniel was hounded with nightmares (perhaps this also shattered his psyche?) Weyer apparently has power over these artifacts, rather than them controlling him.

What kind of monstrous things could he do? More importantly, how can we make this kind of character a compelling villain in a cosmic horror story?

[Awaclus]

And yes, pretttty sure Mandus touched the orb (there was a note/loading screen that told of him cradling the egg in his coat), but also very interesting point in the children having also touched it, and even having touched it first. I didn't notice anything about the twins having a reaction to the orb, other than the sea thing and wanting to take it home. I mean, yeah, they heard the sea, but it didn't seem to do much to them.

But the Guardian of the orb doesn't start acting immediately. It took a while before the Shadow started hunting Daniel. And the children were killed pretty soon afterwards, so maybe that satisfied the Guardian or something.

And I think that it's pretty obvious why the orb is referred to as the egg. When the kids find it, they tell Oswald that they found "an egg" because they don't know what it is, so Oswald starts calling it the egg, too.

[Lazoriss]

I actually didn't like what little we hear of Weyer - the idea of some random human somehow being able to completely negate the inhuman powers of the universe made Daniel's experience feel less impressive.

But all three Amnesia games feature a protagonist under the thrall of some supernatural force. The Stone Egg drove Mandus to create a living slaughterhouse, the Soapstone made Justine a sadist, and Daniel was hounded with nightmares (perhaps this also shattered his psyche?) Weyer apparently has power over these artifacts, rather than them controlling him.

What kind of monstrous things could he do? More importantly, how can we make this kind of character a compelling villain in a cosmic horror story?

Well one thing I do like about the Amnesia games is that the characters are never black-and-white. Weyer could make a potentially interesting character. I would like to know his motives for amassing such power, and how he is able to do so.

I think Justine was a always a sadistic nutcase. Even as a child she was pretty disconnected from others emotionally and rather cruel/blunt. I think that the Orb just amplified it. Also, I don't think the star soapstone itself has any real magical properties. But wherever there is a star stone in an old ruin, there's an orb nearby. I'm rather sure Justine's father had an orb, but most likely kept it locked up somewhere. I don't know if Justine ever handled it, but she seems to know it exists. "What will that perfect sphere bring?" Perhaps she dreams about it? The writing on the wall is highly suggestive of the orb communicating with her somehow (and driving her further into insanity).

I also think Orbs will adjust its visions to something you desire, further driving you to do what it wants. Daniel was probably an archaeologist (or at least a student/intern in the field). he dreamt of what appears to be a awe inspiring city. Mandus is an inventor and therefore dreams about a great machine...

---

And yes, pretttty sure Mandus touched the orb (there was a note/loading screen that told of him cradling the egg in his coat), but also very interesting point in the children having also touched it, and even having touched it first. I didn't notice anything about the twins having a reaction to the orb, other than the sea thing and wanting to take it home. I mean, yeah, they heard the sea, but it didn't seem to do much to them.

But the Guardian of the orb doesn't start acting immediately. It took a while before the Shadow started hunting Daniel. And the children were killed pretty soon afterwards, so maybe that satisfied the Guardian or something.

And I think that it's pretty obvious why the orb is referred to as the egg. When the kids find it, they tell Oswald that they found "an egg" because they don't know what it is, so Oswald starts calling it the egg, too.

Yeah, you might be right there. The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that the Orb showed Mandus those visions of his children with the intent of him killing them. Overall, Mandus seemed to follow the Orb's sway wonderfully. There was never any reason for the Guardian to do anything. There is the fact that no Shadow appeared after Mandus started to sabotage the machine. You could possibly explain that by saying the Orb was already so heavily connected to the machine, and was most likely using most of its energy just to start up despite being so crippled. Throughout the first good chunk of the game you constantly hear the machine trying to run (and ultimately failing). It also needed Mandus to start it up again, so killing him wouldn't have been an option.

There's also my earlier theory about part of Mandus also being inside the Machine as well. it might have felt very conflicted about attacking and killing its creator/father...

[Mechavomit]

Seriously, this guy is a BAMF and I would love to see him as a prevalent character if there was another Amnesia game sometime in the future. U_U

That would be a bit tricky, considering the fact that he is a real person.

Also, a sort of unrelated tidbit. When Mandus sacrificed his children Aztec style on the Temple steps, I'm also fairly sure he carved out and ATE THEIR HEARTS. 8U This is also suggested in that both animations of the dead children show them pulling out their hearts and offering it to you. Mandus will compare himself to Aztec figures in the game, and the ritual described in notes involved consuming the heart... I mean, if it's true that he ate the hearts; what the actual fuck, Mandus?

He's crazy. And a perv. I'm pretty sure that's canon. But...
What about the people who were with him? Surely he wasn't alone in that jungle. He came to Mexico with his kids and returned without them? Didn't anyone question that?
Goes explore a temple, takes his sons along. Comes back without them and covered in blood. Not suspicious at all.

[exmachinax]

"August 20th 1899
(...)

...After the process, it is their reflections that trouble them the most. Afterwards, when they sleep, I walk amongst them. My children, I whisper to their dreams, you are my children now. I have children once again, and your forms imperfect will be the engines to make my own blood flow again."

Taking this in a quite literal way, this makes me agree you the person that said that Mandus killed his children back in Mexico then later in London resurrected them - the pigmen serving as a test to how bring them back as normal (i.e., humanlike) as possible.

Problem is that:

"June 24th 1899
(...)

I hear my children playing in the attic but it fills me with terror, not love. What desperate thoughts are these?"

The kids seems to be alive before the time of the previous note I quoted. Oh well. Anyway, I still guess the kids were reanimated somehow.

[ZyLogicX]

Did noone notice the Theodore Roosevelt hunting pictures in the museum?

[Alardem]

Mandus being terrified of his 'children' in the attic probably means that he's disturbed by them being zombified shells of their former selves. I don't know - personally, I thought the Man-Pigs (and the Machine) served as surrogate children...

[Kein]

And yes, pretttty sure Mandus touched the orb (there was a note/loading screen that told of him cradling the egg in his coat), but also very interesting point in the children having also touched it, and even having touched it first. I didn't notice anything about the twins having a reaction to the orb, other than the sea thing and wanting to take it home. I mean, yeah, they heard the sea, but it didn't seem to do much to them.

But the Guardian of the orb doesn't start acting immediately.

It was almost a year since his visit to Mexico, please.
And I already mentioned how ineffective were tons of sacrifices made by Daniel.