Gender

[Ashtoreth]

If you find the time, please watch the videos below. I think they give a pretty good idea of how domestic violence also affects men; more than most people can imagine, because men are too ashamed of admitting publicly that their girlfriends/wives abuse them physically and psychologically.

[PutraenusAlivius]

Men and Women are treated EQUALLY. There's some male and female rapes and well bad stuff.
But the male doesn't tell anyone whilst women did it and so it made the illusion that it's Women.

[Bridge]

The small, as you say, 'unnoticeable' instances are exactly what helps to keep a current system in place. I'm not saying you have to shout from the rooftops are attend protests, but just question these 'unnoticeable' things and seek to change them.

I live in a small island nation of approximately 330 thousand people by the name of Iceland. We have absolutely no sway when it comes to international issues like women's rights. Don't you think it is a little unfair to expect me to take responsibility for what people who I will never even see or meet do in their own countries? There simply is not enough time for me to worry about every single thing that happens on this earth.

Not to mention, we are rated top 9th on the Gender Inequality Index. The type of sexism you are describing simply does not exist here. We have a long and rich tradition of mutual respect between the genders starting with the vikings, although admittedly women were not allowed to vote until 1915 (which is way earlier than most countries). We are also one of the first countries to elect a female head of state (who was in office for 16 years). Sure, we have domestic violence, we have rapes of all kind, we have misogynists, but it is an acceptable amount.

Now, instead of celebrating these enormous victories within my own society I can instead choose to focus on the micro-sexism that will exist no matter what (which is perpetrated by both sexes roughly equally - my guess would be that it is biological in some way) and cry myself to sleep because the situation in other countries is not as good as it is here. My question is, why should I resign myself to such a fate? Of being in constant sorrow and bitterness, spending every waking minute thinking about inequality on a global scale and trying desperately to make an already good situation even better? I choose apathy because it keeps me sane. I don't even choose apathy - I am apathetic because I am content with my contribution to the cause and there is not much contributing that needs to be done. There is an alleged minor discrepancy between the pay grade of the sexes that I don't know much about and supposedly women are treated unfairly on the labor market but almost every girl I know has a steady part-time job alongside school.

I don't even know why Bridge is conceding so much to you in this debate, you're saying things which are so patently false and drenched in hyperbole as to defy reason

I do not think they are necessarily patently false, but they certainly are, as you said, drenched in hyperbole. I concede because I cannot possibly know how others experience the issue and it would be hypocritical of me to make any absolute statements to that effect. Maybe Abraxas is delusional, and maybe she is not. It would be rude of me to make any claims when my experiences with this are modest at best. I can only say what my opinion is and how I perceive the issue, and unless I have contradictory evidence, which you do, the argument would quickly turn ugly if I didn't let down.

To say that there is no inequality is equally extreme, with all due respect.

[Mechavomit]

Hm. I remember my father was a applying for a position in Interpol. The whole process was difficult, he had to attend tons of special interviews, etc... and I was browsing through some of his papers and saw the requirements for the position. Among obvious formal things it stated "preferably female".
That's right, Interpol prefers women.

I can only imagine the rage if the genders were swapped.


As for the abortion thing, I can't imagine how anyone would even THINK to make it illegal. I agree here, that's legit bullshit.

[MyRedNeptune]

Paddy, ever since this thread started your posts have been rubbing me the wrong way. I didn't think I'd gather the motivation to actually respond to your stuff, but nothing rustles my jimmies like ridiculous straw men, and I can no longer tolerate you shitting all over feminism like that.

Welp, here goes nothing...

Even when the system seems to privilege women over men it's not seen as evidence against the idea of a patriarchy, it's simply taken as further evidence for it:

"Women are greatly benefited by the court system, both in terms of jail times/punishment for crimes and custody of children. Doesn't that show that women aren't oppressed by an inherently oppressive, conspiratorial system?"

"No, it proves that women are infantilised by men and are seen as weak and in need of more privilege."

"So you do have some privilege?"

"It's hardly privilege, it's simply further evidence that we're not in control of our own destinies!"

"So we'll even things out and given you the same jail terms and custody rights as men?"

"Hell no, we fought hard for these things!"

The last two quotes are BS (I honestly doubt anyone who would say that would be taken seriously at all because it's such an obvious contradiction), but the rest is 100% correct. The fact that women are favored in family matters is some of the most concrete evidence for a social bias. Yes, women are infantilized and seen as weak people that are in need of protection, and I'm not sure how you managed to criticize that comment as an inconsistency.

Guess what - any kind of inequality is evidence for a "patriarchy".

And before you jump on that statement and tell me that men are discriminated against just as much as women or something like that, ask yourself this: what are considered to be the most valuable personal achievements in our modern capitalistic society? Power, knowledge, money, fame, recognition, respect - probably one of those, right? Well, the funny thing is that, for some peculiar reason, men tend to be more successful in those fields than women. Hmm, I wonder why that is?

Sure, women have some privileges over men. They are privileged in matters of family and emotional health. But you can't claim they are more privileged than men, or even as privileged as men.

women aren't meant to be sexual or promiscuous. this is why when a women goes around and sleeps with a bunch of guys she'll most likely be viewed a lot worse than if a guy went around and sleep with a bunch of girls. think of it, the large majority of the time the girl in the first case would be viewed as a slut but the guy would have been viewed as a "player" or some shit like that.

This is very true. I don't know if this is something to be blamed on men/maleness, though. The words "she's a total slut" tend to come from a woman's lips before they do a man's, in my own experience anyway.

The double-standard exists and is something to fight against, but feminism isn't the cure and I don't know that men are the cause.

Now, this is just alien logic to me. Why the hell would it matter who does the dirty work - it's the fact that discrimination exists that matters, right? Let me repeat something that has been stated more than once in this thread: most feminists are not against men. Most feminists do not blame anything on men as a whole.

Feminists even do things that can help men. Holy cow!

For further information, please go to this web page and watch the video at the 3:59 mark: (link)


P.S. I hope you can get past the excessively rude tone of this post. I still love you and all.

[PutraenusAlivius]

Just for a counterargument, I met a feminist story on how to prevent it in a website last week. The suggestion was Castration Day.

What the fuck. (Some but not all) feminists are goddamn crazy!

[Bridge]

What does that even mean? A day where men are castrated for no reason at all? Yeah, let's ensure equality for women by relieving men of their basic human rights.

[Mechavomit]

Just for a counterargument, I met a feminist story on how to prevent it in a website last week. The suggestion was Castration Day.



What the fuck. (Some but not all) feminists are goddamn crazy!

Nah, that can't be true, that's some Hunger Games shit..

[PutraenusAlivius]

To be fair though, I think she was banned after that....

EDIT:
Nope, I found it in a blog post. Sadly it's deleted, but I found some discussion online.
http://grisham.newsvine.com/_news/2012/0...ration-day
http://www.zoklet.net/bbs/showthread.php?t=261823

[Kman]

public castration is a good idea is a good album